Lisa Simone Richards is a publicist for coaches, she swapped out her previous lead magnet, a five-day challenge on podcasting, for a quiz titled “What’s the best way to get the word out about your fitness brand?” and immediately saw a 1,200% increase in leads coming in the door. In just two months she got more new leads with the quiz than the previous two years combined using the challenge.
In this episode Lisa shares the way she came up with the idea for the quiz (and why she waited three years to get started on it), how she built the quiz into her marketing plan, and the way it helps to keep customers engaged as they consider working with her. It’s a fascinating listen, and you’ll learn a lot (I know I did).
Check out Lisa’s quiz and learn more about her at lisasimonerichards.com/quiz
Full Transcript
Josh Haynam:
Hi everyone. I’m here with Lisa Simone Richards. She’s a publicist for online coaches and is using a quiz in a really cool way that I’m super excited to talk to her about. Thanks for coming on the show, Lisa.
Lisa Simone Richards:
This is going to be so much fun. I’m really excited to chat with you and have your audience hear a little bit about the backend on my business today.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah. Why don’t you kick things off? What does it mean to be a publicist for online coaches?
Lisa Simone Richards:
One thing that I find a lot is that people are struggling with how to get their business out there and a lot of people seem to think that Facebook ads is the only way to go. And the truth is it’s actually not that hard to get featured in the magazines that you read, on television, on podcasts like this one, even speaking on stages. What I help my clients do is get in front of more of their ideal client without actually having to pay for it. I love the way that my clients get out there because it actually really positions them as credible experts. We all know how to scroll past an ad on Facebook but when you become the content that somebody is watching in a video or reading an article, that’s when people really start to trust you. The best part is it doesn’t cost you anything.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, I really like that. It’s humanizing the brand, right? Because you can have these things that you offer or services you offer courses, coaching, whatever it is, but until people can actually connect with you, it’s kind of just this nebulous thing that doesn’t really make that much sense. I love that. And what does that look like in terms of how you interact with your clients? What kinds of services do you offer?
Lisa Simone Richards:
It’s funny cause we’re going to be talking about in the quiz today and that’s one of the things that I helped them use to figure out what’s going to make the most sense for them. I’m not the kind of coach who has a blanket offering for people. I want to find out what are your gifts and what are your goals. For some people who specialize in exclusively having an online business, it’s probably going to make more sense to get featured on a really good website or on the right podcast versus getting featured on your local morning TV show. For somebody who’s running a bricks and mortar, they’re going to have more success getting into a local newspaper or on a local morning show than they would getting in even Oprah magazine. It gives you great credibility, don’t get me wrong, but the people who could walk into your doors are the ones consuming that local content. Based on what somebody is offering, that’s how I help them assess this is the best way for you to get in front of the right people who actually have the ability to invest in your services.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, that’s a really good point, that the Oprah magazine mentioned, cause we’ve had a similar experiences where we’ll get featured in something like Entrepreneur Magazine and it’s like that’s very cool, but it doesn’t actually help that much. Then you get a feature in a smaller publication that’s really specific to what you do, and all of a sudden that really works.
Lisa Simone Richards:
100%. Something I like to talk into with my clients is what I call the ABCs of publicity. Are you looking to build awareness A, so people know who you are? Are you about to launch something? Because if you are, you want to work on the beef or buzz. You want people to be hearing about in multiple touch points, or are you looking to really position yourself as an expert and that’s when you’re focusing on the C, which stands for credibility. No one’s going to argue with you if you got featured on Oprah, no one’s going to argue with you if you get featured in Forbes. Just having those titles behind your name can help people know, okay, this isn’t like a Joe Blow coach like anybody else. They’re actually at Oprah. They’re in Forbes. I’m willing to invest in them because I can trust them since they’ve been featured there.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Definitely makes sense. That’s the reason why it’s on every single website. It’s like, Oh I was featured here and here and here because it really does make a difference. Let’s jump into the quiz. How does your quiz benefit all of this and drive into your business?
Lisa Simone Richards:
What’s really great about the quiz is like I was saying earlier, it really for me, the way I work with someone depends on their gifts and on their goals. I’ve loved having a quiz as part of my business because now as part of the lead magnet people can go through, you know, what do they want to create, where are their strengths story and then at the end of doing the quiz, they get the answer on the best way for them to get the word out about their business based on what they’re trying to achieve. Now since I’ve put the quiz in place now, based on what answer you get, I have a specific email followup funnel on the backend that’s just going to give you a lot of value that’s not cookie cutter advice. It’s literally tiered to you based on the result that you got. I found it’s been really helpful for creating engagement with people because now they’re actually getting some customized advice as opposed to, try Facebook ads, which is, you know, something you could just say to anybody.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah. That sounds amazing, but also if you were to present that concept to someone, it’s like, all right, wait a minute, hold on. How does that work? So break it down for us. How did you think about creating a quiz? First of all, how did you think about what the quiz should be about? Where did the idea come from?
Lisa Simone Richards:
Yeah, I think it really came from listening to the people who reached out to me and listening to my clients. Most things that I hear from people is, I have no idea how to get the word out about my business. Once I heard that enough times, I was like, “Well, why don’t I give you the answer to that?” I really started working and this is something that’s really great about try and track, because I started working reverse engineering it if you will. I was like, okay, here are five of the best ways that I know entrepreneurs and coaches can get the word out about their business. Now that I know what those five ways, are, I’m going to build out the questions so that based on their responses they get into the right answer.
Josh Haynam:
I really like that because that’s something that has resonated for a long time. Basically just answering the question that is most common from your clients. Would you say that that question of, how do I get the word out about my brand is the one that just is over and over again?
Lisa Simone Richards:
All the time because I think we’ve put so much work into, you know, especially from the online coaches who are working with business coaches and buying courses and programs, we’re putting so much work into developing a program or an offering or a service that we know is to make a huge impact for people. But if people don’t know about it, then they’re never going to work with you. I would hate for people to stay the best kept secret in their industry. I want to make it easy. Everybody wants to think about what is the best next step for me so that I’m not wasting time and so that I’m not wasting money. There are all these different options out there. You could be on Pinterest, you could be on Instagram, you can be on podcasts. It’s almost overwhelming. I wanted to make it really simple and say, this is a strategy that you should focus on. This is what’s going to help you get out there and also be your fastest path to cash.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, I love that. That’s the idea. It’s based on the biggest question. Then what about the next step? How do you decide on just five things? Where did that come from in terms of your recommendations at the end of the quiz?
Lisa Simone Richards:
I’ve been a publicist outside of the online space my entire career, so over 18 years. Having worked with healthcare industries, fitness, having worked with consumer packaged goods. Some of the brands I’ve worked with in the past are staples, Crayola, Virgin Mobile. Having worked on campaigns like that, I’ve really gotten a core understanding of, okay, typically these are the ways that people get their brands out there. It could be speaking on live or virtual stages. It could be featured in traditional media like magazines or television. It could be a podcast. There are just, I find that there are typically five really good ways to leverage other people’s audiences. I think one thing that’s worth me mentioning here is, listen, I love social media. How cool is it that we can literally slide up in the DM’s of our ideal clients?
Lisa Simone Richards:
What I’m seeing more and more is that people are just promoting to the same audience over and over again. If you’re not bringing in new leads, you’re not able to make more offers, you’re not able to make more sales. How can we find the people who’ve already gathered a group of our ideal clients and now how can we position ourselves to get in front of them in a way that offers a value. Once they figure that out, now you’re starting to bring in all these new leads that you didn’t have to pay for and it’s actually warm traffic because they listened to you on a podcast, they’ve seen you in a morning TV show segment. Now you’ve actually given them some value and they trust you and they want to learn a little bit more.
Josh Haynam:
I like that a lot. Let’s give some people some free wisdom. What are the five outcomes? What are the five things that you recommend to people?
Lisa Simone Richards:
This is fun. Let’s see if I can remember them off the top of my head.
Josh Haynam:
Yes, memorization.
Lisa Simone Richards:
I often take my clients through what I call the ladder of publicity. I think there’s this misconception that getting on stages or on television is only for big name celebrities. It’s only for people who have publicists. The truth is, it is way easier than people think. I have clients who have been with me for less than two weeks who are getting on the biggest morning shows in Toronto. You just need to know the right person, the right message, and how to put it out there. However, for somebody who has never gotten out there before, I threw them on live television, they may freak out. I like to take people through, again, like I mentioned, the ladder publicity so that they can grow their confidence along the way and then get out there in a really strong way that’s going to inspire people to trust them.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Some of those five ways include contributing best content. Let’s say you’ve never gotten featured anywhere before. There are websites and blogs that are looking for somebody who has your expertise. How do we figure out the right places that you can write an article for and then link back to your website? Now when someone Googles you, you’re not just showing up on your own site, you’re actually showing up in other places which creates that level of trust. I like that one because there are a lot of us that are perfectionists and we want to make sure we’ve got it just right. When you’re contributing guest content then you can actually sit and you know, edit your work, make sure it’s perfect, and then you can hit submit.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Then I take people through getting featured on podcasts. That’s the next level up. Sometimes you’re on camera, mostly it’s audio, so you don’t, you can still be in your pajamas, walk around, you don’t have to be worried about being seen and now you’re getting a little more confident in your voice. Once we step up from podcast, I like to think about visual. People like to learn in different ways. They like to read, they like to listen, they like to watch things. So you want to hit all those touch points so no matter how your ideal client wants to get information that you’re showing up in that way. That could mean showing up and doing Facebook lives in somebody else’s group and offering value. That could mean getting featured on television. Definitely getting seen is another way. If you’re an extrovert like me, I’m a total only child. I love getting on live stages that it’s a room of hundreds or thousands of people. I will get on stage and be like, Hey everybody, stop talking. I’m here. Okay, great. Let’s go.
Lisa Simone Richards:
For extroverts like that, get on stages. It’s such a powerful conversion tool. Again, you’ve got live stages, you’ve got virtual stages. Then another way to get out there is traditional media. Like I said, some people are really focusing heavily on the social, but when you’ve been featured in Oprah magazine, again there’s a reason Oprah’s favorite things sell out year after year after year. It really does depend again, what your gifts are, what your goals are, where your confidence level is at, and then I’ll move you through those different stages so you can get in front of the right people. It’s really nice that people don’t even need to talk to me first. They can just figure out what that thing is first. Then I can have a conversation with you about how we create that specific plan.
Josh Haynam:
Right, and then it’s such an easier jumping off point, right? You have this common thing to talk about. It’s like, “Oh, this was your recommendation. Does that match? Does not match?” And either way, even if you get it wrong, right? It’s like, “Oh, well why did it not match? Well, let’s talk about that.” You just have this really easy jumping off point to start from.
Lisa Simone Richards:
It’s really interesting because the feedback that I’ve gotten, people are like, this is exactly going to make sense for me. They feel comfortable with it. I’ve had one person respond to me and say, “Man, I wanted to pick some some different answers so I actually did the quiz twice.” It’s really cool to actually talk to him and be like, okay, you got answer… let’s say you got stages in traditional media. Let’s talk about which one makes sense to do first. I think what’s really powerful about the quiz is that takes away the overwhelm. There are just so many options out there. It’s way easier when you just have one and you can go all in and focus on that strategy.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, I totally agree. Even in my own life, it’s like there’s so many options. I don’t know what to do.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Analysis paralysis.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, it’s a real, real thing. Let’s talk about that. How did you do that? How do you write questions that helped filter people into the right outcomes? It sounds like people are telling you they’re getting results that make sense to them and it’s accurate and it resonates with them. How did you write those questions?
Lisa Simone Richards:
Like I was saying earlier, it definitely started with the end in mind thinking about what the most common mediums that I use or media that I use for my clients to get out there, and really I always take it back to who are my ideal clients? Who are the people that I’ve worked with that I’ve loved working with them or have gotten amazing results. I just kind of think about what are some of the questions that they came to me with. What are some of the things that I saw when I first started thinking about them so that I could really think about that from like a 30,000 foot bird’s eye view perspective. That’s what helped me really come up with the right questions. Especially because I was saying earlier, a lot of people come with me with that whole confidence thing like, Oh, who am I to put myself out there? It was really helpful to think about, okay, I know that people come to me and they have a little bit of imposter complex going on. They’re not sure if they’re the person who deserves to be there. Then I was able to build in questions that are in, speak into that so I can assess where your confidence level is at and then filter you the right way.
Josh Haynam:
That’s perfect. That’s perfect. Tell us some of the stories about what people have said about your quiz. What’s the feedback been?
Lisa Simone Richards:
Ooh, what’s the feedback been? You know what? It’s been really great. I do a lot of enrollment calls and discovery sessions in my business. That’s how I enroll people into my mastermind programs and my private coaching programs. It’s really nice that when I get on an enrollment call with someone, when someone books a call, let’s dial it back for a second. Let’s say somebody books a call on my calendar first, then I send them this quiz to do. I’m like, Hey, great. I’m so excited to have a conversation with you. I want to make sure that our time is really focused together and that we create a solution for you on this call. Do this quiz, hit reply. Let me know what response you get. Now I’m creating engagement. My no-show level has decreased drastically because now we’re having a conversation and they feel more connected to me.
Lisa Simone Richards:
They’re going to feel bad just not showing up. We’re starting to get engagement from the jump and then it gives us a direction and a focus when we’re on our call and they’ve already started creating that trust because they’re like, Oh, I can see how this strategy could work for me. I’m excited to speak to Lisa to figure out how we’re going to customize this for me specifically. It’s been really good in terms of getting engagement, it’s been great because you know, having done this in the online space specifically for about three or four years now, I think I have about 600 videos of content sitting in my Vimeo account. So now when someone knows which answers the best for them, traditional media, podcast, whatever it might be, I have videos that I can send them leading up to our calls so that they’re getting value along the way. I’m finding them by the time we hop on a call they’ve gotten so much value. They’ve uncovered something that they didn’t even know was possible for them.
Josh Haynam:
That’s really cool. I actually don’t know if I’ve heard that exact use case before, but that makes a ton of sense because you know, even just thinking back on the early days of interact when I did a lot of demos, the no show rate was really high and it would’ve been really nice if I was doing what you’re doing and was able to actually recommend resources to people along the way and create that engagement. So that’s, that’s super smart. I like that a lot. We chatted about this a little bit before. Neither of us is super analytical, but what have you seen in terms of just overall business impacts? If you could quantify what kind of impact did quizzes made on your business?
Lisa Simone Richards:
100% okay. So before we hopped on this call, I was definitely going into my lead pages, convert kit, and try interact to see what the analytics have been along the way. And this is what’s really interesting. I remember listening to a podcast back in 2017 that was talking about how powerful quizzes were as a lead magnet. I still haven’t removed that from my saved episodes cause I was like I know I want to do a quiz, it’s not going to be just yet, but I want to do a quiz. At the time my lead magnet was a five day challenge all about how to get on podcast. Number one, I’ve eliminated 80% of my audience because maybe podcasts aren’t the right thing for them because like we were saying, I think there were five key ways that people can get out there. When I looked at my stats this morning, the podcast challenge that I’ve had for two years and this quiz that I’ve been running for about two months now, I have had twice as many people land on and convert from the quiz in two months than I have with that other challenge in two years.
Lisa Simone Richards:
It’s really powerful. People love doing quizzes. They’re happy to give you that email address to get the information at the end of it. I think about when I was a teenager going through Cosmo magazine, like mostly A’s, mostly B’s like you know it’s kind of nostalgic almost. It’s fun to do.
Josh Haynam:
Wow that’s crazy. So that’s, I’m terrible at math. 1200% increase cause that was-
Lisa Simone Richards:
Oh I couldn’t tell you. I’m not counting.
Josh Haynam:
You’re doing the same thing in one month that you used to do in a year. So yeah there’s 1200% increase in leads. Wow. That’s insane.
Lisa Simone Richards:
I think it’s really great because now that I look back, a five day challenge, like those videos are probably 10 minutes apiece. They’re not super long. Now I’ve asked people to give me an hour of their time over the course of a week. Whereas with this quiz it just takes them maybe five or not even five minutes to do it, like maybe three minutes to do it and so they’re a lot more engaged. because we know that when you run a challenge for multiple days, we’re going to see a drop off rate. People are not going to have as many people on day five as he did on day one. It’s nice that the quiz is short enough that they get a really sweet win really quickly and that keeps them moving through the funnel.
Josh Haynam:
Wow. That’s, that’s just mind blowing. And has it been long enough to know if that translates over into an increasing clients yet?
Lisa Simone Richards:
You know, I would say within the last two months with all of my enrollment calls, everybody has gone through that quiz, so I will say that when I look at my conversion rate from two months ago to what it is now, it’s definitely increased. I can attribute some of that to the quiz. I don’t know exactly what the number would be, but again, when I look at that 30,000 birds eye view perspective or whatever the term is like, yes, I would definitely say it has had an impact on increasing my conversions.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, I mean, and yeah, 1200% more leads. That’s just a wild number. So that’s, that’s really exciting. Congratulations.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Thank you. Thanks for giving us this tool to help us do it.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, of course. I mean that’s, that’s what we’re just trying to do is connect people with their audience in a more fun way. If you had any recommendations for other folks that are trying to jump into creating their quiz for the first time, what would you say? Just off the cuff?
Lisa Simone Richards:
I would say, I don’t know why I had that episode on my podcast in 2017. It took me until 2020 to do it. Like it was so easy. Imagine if I just implemented this back then where would I be now instead of waiting three years?
Josh Haynam:
I’ve been getting emails, especially recently from people that I contacted in 2014, ’15, ’16 were like, “I’m ready to go now.” It’s like, well, just half a decade. It’s fine.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Yeah, I think about I’ve left a lot of money sitting on the table and it was way easier to do than I thought it would be. I think I, made up this story in my head that would be really difficult to come up with the funnel and a path and how would answer A lead to like question B et cetera, et cetera. And it was just easy to do from the jump. It was easy for me to go into my resources and come up with customized back end. It didn’t take me an entire day, not even. Maybe like three hours and now it’s just paying off. Just invest the time in figuring it out once and for all and then get the results on the backend.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah. Is there anything that helped you get over the hump? Like what made you finally pull the trigger and do it?
Lisa Simone Richards:
It was definitely a coaching call with my business coach and we were looking at my lead magnet and she’s… We were just exploring some different things. I love doing things on video because it creates such good connection, but then again asking people to commit to like even a five or a 20 minute video, that could be a lot. It was nice if we had this quiz as a tool to quickly get people in to peak their interest and then when they get their results, now they’re interested in watching a five minute video with me speaking into how they can use the results to actually create a way to get more eyes on their business. That investment level again has gone up. I think one distinction I wanted to throw in really quickly, if I may, in the example I was sharing with you earlier, I would have someone book a call with me and then I would point them towards a quiz. It was kind of like the quiz was step two. I’ve definitely been using the quiz as step one as well. When I’m doing various podcasts interviews or summits and you know it always ends with Lisa, where can we find you? The quiz is such a low level investment for people to do, that they’re happy to jump in that way and then I’m growing my email list on the backend.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, that’s really cool because I have heard that one before. What’s your experience been like telling people to go to a quiz versus what did you do before? Did you tell them to go to the lead magnet before?
Lisa Simone Richards:
Before they were going to the challenge lead magnet and yeah, I’m not, I can’t exactly remember what the conversion rate on it, but it wasn’t, you know, it’s a five day challenge. There’s something that sounds a little bit heavy in that I’m going to have to invest my time. Then take this quick three minute quiz and find out what the best strategy is for you. Of course that one’s doing a lot better.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah. Even just as you say it, it just makes mental sense. I’m going to have to do something with this challenge versus Oh, I’m going to tell him, go take a quiz. That sounds fun.
Lisa Simone Richards:
It’s so much more fun.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah. That’s a really good point
Lisa Simone Richards:
I think what I’ve seen with the challenge just as a specific one that I have, I think that challenge is amazing. I should be selling that challenge because it goes through the entire backend on how I do it. I think the truth is a lot of people, even though we have the best intentions, like speaking for myself as well, I’ve spent thousands of dollars on courses that I haven’t finished yet. I think people really enjoy getting all the information but do they actually use it to create transformation? No. And this is a really quick way to give them the information that inspires them to actually create the transformation because they’re doing something that’s custom to them. And again, low barrier to entry.
Josh Haynam:
Yeah, that’s perfect. That’s amazing. Well I was just going to ask you where people can go to find out more about your services. I was also going to ask you where they can go to take your quiz and then you were like, it’s the same thing. Where can people go to check out this quiz that you’ve set up and learn more about what you do because I feel like I’ve learned a lot today so I’m sure a lot of folks can learn more by going and checking out what you have.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Amazing. Well, definitely the answer to both of those questions is head on over to www.LisaSimoneRichards.com/quiz and that’s where you’ll find my quiz. Uncover the best way to get the word out about your coaching business, and then just go through a few simple questions and I will tell you exactly the best way to get out there based on your gifts and on your goals.
Josh Haynam:
Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on today, Lisa. I fee like I have learned so much and this is just really eye opening in a lot of ways, so really appreciate it.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Thank you. This was so much fun and I can’t wait for all your listeners to figure out the best way to get in front of more of your ideal clients.
Josh Haynam:
Sound good. All right, have a good one.
Lisa Simone Richards:
Bye.