From Selling Birdhouses to Becoming CEO with Lauren Fritsch

Lauren Fritsch was always a creator, when she was a kid she’d sell birdhouses along the side of the highway with her brothers, capitalizing on the literal traffic that would drive by. In this episode we get to hear her journey from birdhouse saleswoman to CEO of the Magnetism Factor, where she is now advisor […]

Lauren Fritsch was always a creator, when she was a kid she’d sell birdhouses along the side of the highway with her brothers, capitalizing on the literal traffic that would drive by. In this episode we get to hear her journey from birdhouse saleswoman to CEO of the Magnetism Factor, where she is now advisor and coach to multi-national corporations and startups alike. She shares stories of rejection, shame, and overcoming setbacks all in the pursuit of building her own career. It’s a compelling and gripping story you won’t want to miss.

Helpful links.

  1. The Magnetism Factor

Josh Haynam:
Hi everyone. I am here with Lauren Fritsch, the founder of the Magnetism Factor. Do you want to give us some insight on what that means?

Lauren Fritsch:
Sure. Magnetismfactor.com is my company that does consulting for brands, both B2B and B2C, and we focus on psychology-driven customer acquisition through the lens of customer experience, CX, and employee experience, EX. So what does that mean? It means we get inside the minds of both customers and employees, and we help drive conversion by paying attention to the customer journey and the employee journey.

Josh Haynam:
That’s very cool, and also very similar to what we try to do at Quiz is, so that works out really well. So you’re here now, but how did you get here? What’s the background? How did you become the founder of this? And what’s the story and the journey of how you went from where you started, to getting to where you got to now?

Lauren Fritsch:
I have almost no employment history as an adult American, because I’ve worked for myself, and we have that in common except I’m a lot older than you. And I think that’s an unusual path, but I think it’s growing less atypical. I think in general, people are more inclined to start something on their own because it’s more possible with technology and things like Inneract, right? When I was starting out in the 2000s, graduating from college, I held one job for approximately six months and it was a great job. I was the executive director of the alumni organization for my college in New York City. So we were in a big clubhouse, we had this beautiful facility and hotels and restaurant, bar, all that stuff, and I was in charge of the member organization. So planning, increasing the member roles.

Lauren Fritsch:
Actually, it’s really interesting given what I do now. It was all about how do we reach out to the alumni in New York City and then the greater Tri-state area and encourage them to stay connected with the university and with our programming. So there were a lot of reasons that wasn’t a fit. And over the year and a half after that period of time, I had been an English major in college. I started exploring a lot of different avenues. And it’s the typical trying to find yourself stuff. I got certified to teach Pilates and yoga. I had been a college athlete so that was a very good fit. I trained an Olympic soccer player among other things, and an Olympic swimmer. And I went back to school again in New York to study fashion design because sewing was something I’d done since I was five, and quickly, quickly realized that my path was not going to be in working for Gap corporate, specializing in T-shirt design every season. That was not my jam, and that I really gravitated more towards the business end of things, and had always been reading all kinds of crazy stuff as a kid, newspapers, magazines, whatever I could get my hands on.

Lauren Fritsch:
So I took a lot of that, just sort of macro knowledge and realized, okay, I can use this. And I went to Italy and basically cleaned toilets because I thought this is where fashion is really important. It’s where it’s a huge industry. They have a legacy. And I slowly worked my way into an internship and then working for a family who was very well connected in the industry. And I realized that I had a couple of ideas that could work for making a living, but without having a boss. And at the time that was probably a character flaw. I didn’t like authority. But what I didn’t realize was that I was also really early in my life at 22, saying I want to design a life that I like. I don’t want to go to work in a normal 9 to 5 way. And at a time when every one of my peers was going to be an investment banker, that was not decidedly my path.

Lauren Fritsch:
So I basically took the money that I made cleaning toilets and teaching English to Italians, and I bought a bunch of samples from Italian designers who weren’t yet represented in the U.S. I had passible Italian and French skills. And I got back to the U.S., bought a car and started learning the ropes of wholesale fashion sales, which is a cutthroat, insane industry. Especially back then, because it was very… It wasn’t consolidated at the time. I was calling on Nordstrom and Saks, as well as mom and pop shops all over the East coast and I had to sometimes go to them. So I’ve been to every mall or retail complex on the East coast. And I was just toting my trunk and would show them what I had and they would place orders, or they’d tell me to get the fuck out, which both have happened.

Lauren Fritsch:
And people at the time were like, “How did you do that?” And I said it was naïveté, a Southern accent that I would turn up because they were so disarmed by it. I would play up my sort of green, you know, “I don’t know anything about this business. I’m just calling you.” And I got meetings that way, and I had to learn very quickly how to close sales.

Lauren Fritsch:
One thing that people had no idea they needed or wanted and weren’t even on the radar at a time when branding was not the juggernaut that it is now. Because, you guys probably don’t know this, but fashion was very late to the online game, especially luxury fashion. They were very, very resistant. And a lot of brands, even in the mid-2000s didn’t even have websites. So it was a different kind of business than it is today and far less global. And it was super-diffused. Everybody bought clothes from stores that were around them. E-commerce was not a thing yet.

Lauren Fritsch:
So that was my trial by fire, and I did really well. I sold a ton of stuff and I made a lot of money. And I also got to see how the industry worked, and fashion is crazy, we all know that. Thanks to shows like Project Runway and America’s Next Top Model. And there are lots of egos involved and it was not comfortable to always have so much drama. And so I started using what I learned to help my clients do things related to their websites. PR. I started creative directing websites of all things. I started helping them with the design and manufacture and production and sourcing. I started helping them with the merchandising. I started working on their sell-through. So how is it selling once it hits the store? How are we educating the salespeople who are then going to sell this to the end user? There are lots of layers to look at in a business of durable goods. And so I got to learn everything there was to know about a durable goods industry, and also the bad parts of it. So I said, “Okay, I’m going to get a coaching certificate, and I’m going to start working with other types of businesses.” And that opened up doors that I’d never even considered because I didn’t know they existed.

Lauren Fritsch:
One of my longest term clients, best clients ever, was a company that manufacturers adhesive products for industries, as diverse as diapers and medical testing, electronics. Their adhesives are used to affix, for instance, the Audi symbol onto all cars. Weird stuff like that. And then it’s also used in the process to print all consumer packaging. So it’s a massive industry that none of us walking around have ever given a single thought to, but they were a longtime client. I worked with their global team. They’re a global multinational company. They compete with 3M, which is a company we’ve all heard of. And that’s just one example. But I got to work with companies like Verizon and A.P.C. which is sort of like a niche fashion brand. I go into LVMH which is a luxury conglomerate. And also startups. So companies that again, no one’s ever heard of, but that are at the initiatory phases of their inception and want to use a very specific approach to how they get customers. That centers the customer, and that’s what I focus on exclusively.

Lauren Fritsch:
Now, when I was younger, specifically under 30, I was still finding my way. So I would take business… I would listen to a CEO, I would say, “I can help you with that.” I would have no track record of necessarily having done that, but I’d say “I can help you.” I would ask them lots of questions and that’s usually where they saw the value. They were like, “You’re asking us questions no one’s ever asked us.” And then I would be able to spot patterns or challenges that they hadn’t been able to see because it’s too close to them, right? When you’re this close to something, you don’t see what you don’t see. And as an outsider I could see things. And then I would deliver my recommendations and sometimes I’d help them implement, and sometimes I’d just deliver the recommendations and say, “See ya. That’s great.” That’s where we wanted to end the engagement. And that process of being very market agnostic goes against the conventional wisdom, which is always niche, niche, niche, focus, focus, focus. And for me, being market agnostic and size agnostic with my clients, was really as beneficial to me as it was to them, because I was able to draw on a breadth of information as well as a depth that made me more valuable as a consultant.

Lauren Fritsch:
And I want to be clear though too, that the kind of consulting I do is not the kind of consulting that you would do if you went to a two-year program at Accenture, for example, and learned consulting from that perspective. It’s not me armed with spreadsheets and power points. It’s really getting elbow deep into an organization and seeing why aren’t they getting the results they want, and what can we do to change that? And sometimes that’s internal, and sometimes it’s more externally focused. And that’s why I look at customer experience, CX, as much as EX, employee experience. Because if you want to deliver a fabulous customer experience, you can’t do that if your employees are super unhappy.

Lauren Fritsch:
And that became a stumbling block, because most of the time earlier in my career I wasn’t willing to address the employee issues. And I saw that they had all these desires to change things for the customer, but then there were these latent things that were going on, because all companies are dysfunctional, right? And in order for both to be successful we have to address the employee piece. And that requires a certain kind of leader, a certain kind of CEO who’s willing to do that work. And now when people ask me who I work with, I usually give them psychographics. I don’t talk about demographics at all because they’re not important. The psychographics are the type of leaders who want to do hard work to certainly make a lot more money, but also create lasting relationships with their employees and their customers. And not everybody wants to do that, which is fair.

Lauren Fritsch:
So it’s been a windy, windy path. It’s the, too long, didn’t read version. Windy, windy path. And it continues to evolve and I think that’s one of the other crucial pieces is that if you’re going to go out on your own, it’s important to be open to changing when you get new data, and be open to changing when the world changes. And we obviously are in a time, this week, the first week of June, 2020, whenever someone happens to be listening to this, we’re at a time when everything is changing and I’ll give you one example. I am halting all marketing activities this week, everything. Because I sat with my team and one of my advisors, was like, “I don’t feel comfortable doing any of it.” So we hit pause on everything. Because no one cares about my quiz when children are dying in the streets.

Lauren Fritsch:
So I think for anybody who wants to create your own business from your own intellectual property, which is what I do, is I have created a business based on my ideas and my way of putting together observations for other companies. You can do it, absolutely. I think it’s important to be super, super flexible. And that sometimes the conventional wisdom is not going to get you where you need to go. So, niching down being one example.

Josh Haynam:
Yeah, I love that whole story and I feel like I can resonate with so much of it in my own journey, in starting my own thing. Two questions really stood out to me as you were talking. The first one being, it sounds like there was always this drive or this initiative to branch out and do your own thing. Where did that come from?

Lauren Fritsch:
That’s a good question. So I… When you were saying “How did you get to where you are?” I was like, “How early do you want to start?”

Lauren Fritsch:
So my brothers and I, I have three brothers who are biological and then I have a couple others who are brothers from another mother. When we were young, we started entrepreneurial activities really early. We made bird houses. And a lot of that was out of necessity. We were poor kids. We wanted to make money. We were motivated to make money. So I think it was second grade, we made a bunch of bird houses, made the lemonade, made cookies. And we stood out and made 40 bucks in one day, which in the ’80s is a lot of money to some kids. We were like, “Woo!” We were selling our bird houses for $4. Okay, they were way under-priced.

Josh Haynam:
Undercut the market.

Lauren Fritsch:
Yeah, completely. But we also had a good location because our driveway was on a huge highway, a two-laner where the speed limit was about 45. And so people had time, they could see us and they could slow down, or they could go up further and then turn around and come back, which happened. And so we were like, “This is great.” We didn’t go to one of our friend’s neighborhoods which would have been the obvious choice. We were like, “No, we want the traffic.” And so we did that.

Lauren Fritsch:
And then, in middle school I always worked and did babysitting gigs. I made so much money doing babysitting. And I love clothing so I would always just blow my money on clothing as a kid.

Lauren Fritsch:
And then in high school, I was in boarding school and I also did not have money. I would work in the summers to earn money so I would have spending money. But I started in, I think 1995, sort of vaguely backing off Kate Spade bags, which were really hot back then, the nylon black ones. And I would sell them to my classmates, and their moms would buy them. And so I was selling these hand bags and I think I sold those for 20 bucks. But a Kate Spade bag was quite expensive and obviously mine were not anywhere near that but still, I was learning.

Lauren Fritsch:
And then once I got to college, I was in a sorority and I was an athlete so I was really busy. But I also made dresses for my sorority sisters. So, there are all these date functions so you need a dress all the time, because there are pictures. And this was before Rent the Runway. So I would make dresses for my sorority sisters and charge them for the dresses. So that’s the early stages. And I think a lot of it was influenced… I have a very unusual dad who, he was a football player and he went to the Naval Academy. He had a football career and coached some. And then he was not cut out to be an employee, clearly. His personality just didn’t mesh with it. And he tried real estate, and then he started a business in 1988. It’s still running. He is in the wellness and blood testing and that kind of space. I mean, it’s been a lot of things over the years but that’s a really hot space now. And ultimately he’s able to work with people who are uninsured, underinsured or self-insured, and provide a level of access that they wouldn’t have otherwise. And he works throughout the Southeast.

Lauren Fritsch:
So watching him have that business, watching his schedule flex for what was good for him was really interesting. And consequently, he was home a lot. And in the early years he wasn’t making a lot of money. He didn’t hit his stride until I’d say the mid to late ’90s. And still, he’s not going to scale his business very much because he maintains a sole proprietor kind of vibe and that’s good for him. And so it was instructive. It was instructive to see that lifestyle, and it was also instructive to see, what do I want to take and what do I want to leave from now? He’s done business too. And incidentally, my entire family in some way, shape or form is in sales. So I think there are elements of that, that run in the family and are personality-driven.

Josh Haynam:
Yeah, that’s amazing, selling bird houses and homemade handbags and dresses. That’s so, so cool.

Josh Haynam:
And then the second question that came up was, you made this jump from, you’re selling fashion door to door essentially, like business to business, right? And then you made a jump to coaching and advising companies. And I think something that I really hear quite often with our customers and just with people in general that are trying to make that jump, is this feeling of either imposter syndrome or how the heck am I supposed to charge somebody for whatever it is that I’m doing. What was that like for you and how did you get past that?

Lauren Fritsch:
So I think that it was not as big a jump for me because it was a combination of youthful arrogance and naïveté. Like, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I didn’t know what I was getting into. And the arrogance piece helped. Because when you’re a young woman going into a company and saying, “I can help you,” you have to have an air of incredible competence and confidence. And I will say that having gray hair, a child, and a husband, has made the sales process much easier. And it took some time for me to get there. I had a lot more gravitas.

Lauren Fritsch:
In the early years, people, especially in the South or in the Washington D.C. area, they’d be like, “Har, har, har. Where’d you come from little lady?” and, “Do you have an MBA?” or whatever. And I don’t, I don’t have an MBA. And I actually don’t think I need one at this point and didn’t need one at the time. However, there are certain people, if you feel more comfortable with the credentials, get the credentials first, if that’s really going to help you. And I have friends and colleagues and clients, individual clients who feel much more comfortable with the cred. If you think that your lived experience of helping other companies, when you’re an employee doing something, and then being able to turn and do that same something for another company that you’re not an employee of, if you think that you can do that, the way to do it is to just get started. It sounds so trite, but I really mean that.

Lauren Fritsch:
And if that means that you take on a client, never take a client for free, ever. Always make them pay something. There’s an article, you can Google my name and price discrimination, always price discriminate. So I don’t charge a startup the same amount of money that I would charge LVMH for obvious reasons. LVMH has deep pockets. We need to make sure that they pay so that they take this work seriously. But if you’re working with a startup, start at a small reasonable amount that they can pay. And it always helps to start with people in your network who are going to give you a little bit more latitude because they know you. Because you’re going to make mistakes. And I have made mistakes.

Lauren Fritsch:
However, I’ve also had incredible client longevity, and incredible client outcomes because I’m willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that that client gets results. I now know I can articulate after the fact what I need upfront and what I can look for, and I can predict if this is going to go off the rails or if it’s not, because of experience and patterning. But when you’re just starting out, just get a little business and don’t worry about, am I pricing it right? Am I talking about it right? Do I have a website? You don’t need a website. You don’t need a business card. You don’t need any of it. Just go get a project. And again, I know that sounds very simplistic, but one project, begets three projects. It’s just the nature of the business.

Lauren Fritsch:
And I certainly like, you know, shameless plug. I have an entire body of work about how to go about getting corporate clients. It’s seven different separate systems, each with their own very specific approach to how I like to do things. Because it’s complex. These are complex systems that we’re talking about when we’re talking about corporations. There are complex ways to address these complex systems. And so I don’t want to overcomplicate it in a conversation like this, but just start talking to people.

Lauren Fritsch:
Say, “What are you dealing with?”

Lauren Fritsch:
“Okay. I think I can help you. If I can’t help you I think I know someone else who can help you.” Or, “I really can’t help you.” Right?

Lauren Fritsch:
And the other thing too, is that I was just game for figuring it out. That, I think was an essential component of it. Just saying, “I’m going to figure this out.” And that’s scary and it’s weird and it’s uncomfortable, especially if you haven’t done that exact thing before, to point to and say, “Look, I did that. I can do this now.” Now it’s easy for me because I’m like, “Oh, I had that kind of client. Now we can do this.” So it’s less likely. So in those early days you have to be okay to be uncomfortable and not know how you’re going to get there.

Josh Haynam:
Yeah, and another question that came up as you were explaining that, and it’s like, excellent. It resonates a lot with my experience. But what about those situations where you did get the, as you were saying, the “Hey little lady” kind of thing. That seems very defeating and just tough to deal with that, and then to get back and try again. What was that like? How did you push through that? What were you telling yourself?

Lauren Fritsch:
So, two things. One is, I take a lot of things really personally. I just got an email from one of my licensees. So I license out some of my work so other consultants can use it with their clients. And I got an email this morning from a licensee that was really confronting and in a similar way of the… There are always going to be things in business, because business is personal, because what is business? Business is a bunch of humans getting together and making things and charging for it. Because there are humans involved, it’s going to go sideways. And as someone who takes things very personally, it’s hard to be confronted with people who don’t see your value, or think you’ve done something wrong, or get mad at you or whatever. It’s always hard. That part for me, never really goes away. It’s always hard. I always feel emotionally, I don’t want to say triggered, that’s the wrong word. But I feel emotionally invested in what’s going on. So I don’t think that’s changed.

Lauren Fritsch:
What I do think is, something that I’ve learned is that I don’t have to let them live in my head. So if I think on things like that and dwell on it, then that’s my choice. I can’t change behavior or perceptions if someone’s already made up their mind. But I can show up, and I’ll tell you, I use words that people don’t use in corporate a lot. I make sure that my communication, if I cannot come from a place of love and empathy, then I don’t communicate. So if I need to take a beat to do that, to get into that place and come from that place, and communicate without being defensive and trying to be passive-aggressive or make them see, or otherwise maybe be patronizing or something, if I can’t come from that place, then I don’t communicate. And I sit on it and wait. But I think that it requires being in business for yourself. And I think you might also echo this. It requires you to really dig deep into who you are and your resilience as a person. And are you going to take responsibility for what you experienced or are you not? And there are plenty of successful people out there who take no responsibility, right? So, you can be successful and be a dick. You can be successful and be a narcissist. Plenty of them.

Lauren Fritsch:
However, if you are misaligned with yourself, then you’re the only one who’s going to feel like crap. So as a business owner or an aspiring entrepreneur or an existing entrepreneur, if things don’t feel good, then you have to take responsibility for how you feel. And you get to make decisions based on that. So for me, it’s just trying to, love and empathy, love, and empathy, love and empathy. And how can I make this conversation a game changer? Which comes from my coaching background, but is not usually something people think about when they’re looking at prospects for sales, right? So that’s been really important. And also just to recognize that times are changing and most of the time when people say stupid stuff, it’s not about you. It’s really about them.

Josh Haynam:
Yeah. Yeah, that is true. And also really hard to remember.

Lauren Fritsch:
Super hard.

Josh Haynam:
In my experience, it’s almost always a projection of whatever’s going on with them. And I really like what you said about being real with yourself. Because if somebody says something about you, and you don’t know who you are, then, at least in my experience you’re much more likely to believe it than if you know who you are and you feel secure in that, and then somebody says something and you’re like, yeah that is, that… And it still is hard. I love that you shared that example of the email because I have the same thing. To this day, if somebody has something negative to say or is disappointed or upset with me, it’s really difficult. But as you get more close to this is what I’m about… I read this really great book. It’s like, stand up and show the world who you are. As long as you’re good with that, it hurts less. Something like that. So, this has all just been… It feels like we’re getting the background of the run-up and the buildup and the hard times, and the things you struggle through. Share with us what life looks like now, as you’ve progressed, what’s on the other side of the hill?

Lauren Fritsch:
That’s an interesting question. I’m laughing because look, I exist in a state of incredible privilege. I’m a white woman. I live in New York City. I’m married to an awesome guy. I have three houses, like stupid. It’s a stupid level of privilege. And we’re at a time in our country’s history I think that it’s a breaking point, and so it’s time to look at that privilege. At the same time, there is no hierarchy of suffering. And what we haven’t talked about is, well I did mention. My daughter has an autoimmune disease and she’s five and it’s brought me to my knees over and over, over and over. And I’m going to get emotional because it’s… Business is important, right? It’s about sustaining our lives. Our world runs on money. We need it. It’s not evil. Money’s love. It’s actually love. It’s a way to show love, throw your weight behind something that you believe in. It’s an incredible, incredible resource. And, it is not everything.

Lauren Fritsch:
And I think… And my husband also got laid off about a year ago and he’s been unemployed for a year. And so there’s incredible uncertainty just with that stuff. And then you layer on other things. You layer on politics, you layer on family dynamics, you layer on COVID, you layer on the absolute nightmare that so much of our population is experiencing and has experienced for 400 years as people of color. There’s a lot of stuff that happens in life and I’m at a point where business is vital for me, because it’s a way that I express myself. I couldn’t live, in this body, in this world, and not, I like to say it’s creation at the speed of thought. If I think of something, I want to get it out there, like immediately. And business is one facet of that.

Lauren Fritsch:
I just started songwriting randomly. Don’t know why. Middle of the night, waking up, miserable. Songs! Whoa! Like guess what? I’m going to take them into a studio. I’m going to record them. I’m taking voice lessons. I want to create at the speed of thought, and certainly business and a sustainable lifestyle is part of that. But for me around the corner, now I see, for the first time in, you know, it’s taken me five years to get here, it was really painful learning, is that there’s so much beyond just going and making money.

Lauren Fritsch:
And I’d say the entire first 12 years of my business career I was really focused on these milestones. I want to make X, I want to do Y. No, not that none of it matters, but that I realized that it fits into this ecosystem of, not even items. Items is the wrong word. It fits into this ecosystem of existence that is so nuanced and multilayered that I seen now how limited my worldview was for a long time, and how expansive it can be. And that there are journeys ahead that I have no idea what they will contain. And I’m sure that they will also contain their fair measure of suffering, right? Or pain, let’s say that. Pain, we don’t have to suffer. And that that’s what life is about. And so yes, I have business goals for sure. Yes, I want to write a book. Yay. But there are other things that are frankly, vastly more important. That was a really long answer. Sorry about that.

Josh Haynam:
I am thankful for you sharing that and changing the lens on it, because that is exactly how I feel about it. There’s nuances in the situation, but realizing that family and human connection and other things in life really are the sources of fulfillment. And I like how you put it too, of creation at the speed of thought. And it’s fun, it’s enjoyable in that light. But then you also realized that it’s not the main thing. And in that place, it’s really great. And then you can sit back and be grateful for the life that it provides and have a good perspective on were I a different color or a different gender, I may have done exactly the same things and I wouldn’t be here. We can also recognize that and be grateful for what it’s afforded you, but at the same time, realize it’s a part of my life. It’s not everything. So I really appreciate you putting it in that way.

Lauren Fritsch:
Sure. Yeah. To go one step further, I’m trying to make sure that my work is on the same level as folding the laundry, or making my kids food.

Josh Haynam:
Mm, mm. Yeah. Yeah. It’s finding joy in all of life and not just chasing the next thing, because that’s a never ending rabbit trail.

Lauren Fritsch:
Yes it is. I’m so glad you said that.

Josh Haynam:
Sure. You’ve experienced and I’ve experienced the same thing, and you look around and you’re like, “Wow! This is what I visualized years ago.” And I’m here. And now I’m just visualizing the next thing. Okay. Like that’s never going to fix whatever it is I’m chasing, and I think realizing that is really important.

Lauren Fritsch:
Yeah. 100%.

Josh Haynam:
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I think it’s one that resonates, it resonates deeply with me and I’m sure it will with a lot of other people so I appreciate you just being open. If anybody listening does want to read more, dive into the topics that you’ve chatted about, checkout your different offerings, where can they see what you have to offer?

Lauren Fritsch:
Magnetism Factor for sure. But my main website is just my name, laurenfritsch.com.

Josh Haynam:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming-

Lauren Fritsch:
Thank you. That was really fun.

Josh Haynam:
… on Laura. I really appreciate it. Yeah, all right. Thanks.

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Josh Haynam

Josh Haynam is the co-founder of Interact, a place for creating beautiful and engaging quizzes that generate email leads. Outside of Interact Josh is an outdoor enthusiast, is very into health/fitness, and enjoys spending time with his community in San Francisco.

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