Ep. 35

How to Conquer Self-Sabotage Part 2 with Ashley Beaudin

Ashley Beaudin grew up shy, soft-spoken, and unsure of herself and the world around her. Surrounded by an environment in turmoil, she experienced painful trauma and difficulty in her life, which led to self-sabotaging behaviors down the line.

But through the years, Ashley never gave up. She began to create her own recovery program and threw herself into a journey to re-write her story. Today, Ashley shares her story boldly to empower others to show up for themselves, imperfections and all.

Ashley Beaudin’s website: https://www.ashleybeaudin.com/

Okay, so I’ve been waiting long enough. I really want to get into this self-sabotage stuff.

Ashley:
Okay. Yeah.

Jessmyn:
I just feel so passionate about the whole everyone checking in with themselves, taking care of yourself, and I think this year is the year of self care, at least in my eyes. I am just 100%… I was telling you yesterday, I had this moment where I was thinking to myself, “Oh my god, what am I doing here?” And I actually had shared the story on my Instagram story, and someone had reached out and they pretty much said, “Oh, I needed this. I needed somebody to kind of tell me to keep going, and also be honest about being scared.” And I was telling them, “This is my year of just being unapologetically honest with myself.” And I think my way of coping with it is sharing and having a community aspect to it, which you were talking about earlier, is finding those people who are also telling themselves, “Yeah.”

Jessmyn:
And especially after this last year, there’s a ton of people out there who either are moving their business online because of the pandemic, or their online business is hurting because of the pandemic. Pretty much pandemic kind of ruined it for everybody, but anyway, I found yourself self-sabotage. I already knew who you were, but I found your self-sabotage because… I don’t even know why I was looking. To be honest, I think it must have been when we were talking about Summit, your upcoming Summit at the time, and I must have gone onto your website. I don’t remember what it was. Or I think-

Ashley:
I think it’s… Well, when I did the quiz, I had reached out to you and said, “I’m getting crazy results.”

Jessmyn:
Ah, that’s right.

Ashley:
Yeah. Yeah, the success of my quiz was shocking.

Jessmyn:
Yeah. Well, because a lot of people need that, I think. Even before 2020, no one talked about it enough, I think. And yeah, so when you had sent that to me, I took a look at your quiz thinking, “Oh, sometimes I’ll take people’s quizzes just to keep an eye on what is it doing? Does it follow best practices?” To the book, all that stuff. And actually, I do read questions when I look through people’s quizzes, and with this one I was like, “Hold on, I can actually take this quiz. Let me…”

Jessmyn:
And so, I started answering the questions, and I remember to this day specifically, and my result was Perfectionist. And what was crazy for me in this whole experience was, this actually encouraged me to look into that within myself, and I actually… hopefully this isn’t TMI for people, but I started therapy from there. Because it spoke to me so much that I was thinking, “Oh my god, I really am a perfectionist, I don’t know why. And there’s a lot of fear in my own heart and mind, because I always have to have everything exactly right.”

Jessmyn:
And so anyway, so I go into it, and I started. The therapist had recommended the… God, I can’t remember the book now because it’s not with me, I’m in another town, but it had to do with perfectionism. I don’t know if about it. It was like, When Perfect Isn’t Perfect Enough, I think is what it-

Ashley:
[crosstalk 00:31:00] I don’t know it.

Jessmyn:
It’s something along those lines. When Perfect Isn’t Perfect Enough, or When It’s Not Good Enough, or something. And in there, they really prompt you with, “Think of a time in your life when you felt this and that.” And I started relating a lot of it back to my childhood, and not just… It’s crazy because on the surface, I didn’t at all have a bad upbringing, but my parents were your typical… and I talk about this in my own episode, but they’re a typical, like very Asian, “We came to America, they were immigrants, and you are very lucky to be American, and grow up here.” And so I didn’t realize how big of an impact that made for me in my adult life until I took your quiz, figured out I was a perfectionist, and then started looking deeper into myself of why that was. And I also am taking… I have a professional development coach, and with also all of this, I mentioned I found out I’m a perfectionist and it’s totally true, and when we worked through all of that, now I know that I have this utter fear of disappointment.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
And so it’s just this whole process. And so anyway, that was my whole story. This isn’t about me, but tell me about I guess, what was it four? Four types?

Ashley:
Eight.

Jessmyn:
Eight, oh my gosh. Okay, the eight types of self-sabotage, what all that means, and then yeah, tell me more about it [crosstalk 00:32:37] talking about myself.

Ashley:
I love that. I think that’s a good story example of one, how self-sabotage can [inaudible 00:32:48], and two, what happens when we discover it. And three, how you can [inaudible 00:32:51] and respond to it. So I think it’s good. So self-sabotage is… The main thing that we need people to know is that self-sabotage is about safety.

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley:
It’s about making sure that you stay safe, and normally, it is [inaudible 00:33:12] trauma. Normally like childhood trauma, is where those self-sabotaging tendencies become the strongest.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
And so it is really just about, how can I protect myself? How can I stay safe? That perspective shift is so important, because then we’re able to look at self-sabotage as not like this way I’m screwing my life up, but I’m actually really good at taking care of myself, and really good at making sure that I’m okay to keep going. It’s really a method of self-love, but just not without the resources to really give yourself the kind of love that you really deserve.

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley:
One of the thoughts I always share is that self-sabotage is self-support to the extent of how worthy you feel of support and love, which is why… So it’s like that same sort of of muscle. It’s the muscle of showing yourself support, like how can we gather the resources to get through this? How can we keep going? But we’ll only accept the love we think we deserve, and that includes with ourselves. And so, that perspective shift is so important when we’re looking at self-sabotage because it’s not a shaming thing. It’s not like, “Fix yourself.” It’s like, “Wow, you’re so good at taking care of yourself. You’re so good at staying safe, and maybe it’s not in the way that you want. Maybe it’s not aligning with you, and so let’s figure out how to redirect that muscle.”

Jessmyn:
Oh.

Ashley:
So yeah, that’s my first caveat. Through working with clients, I would also say self-sabotage… Normally if you say the word self-sabotage, people have an idea where that leads in your mind. But if you’re like, “I don’t know,” one question you can ask yourself is, think about a time when you were going after something you wanted, and it didn’t happen because of a million different reasons. Or you kind of gave up on it, or you quit. Why? Like, what happened to sort of make that happen? I even always tell people, think of something really small. So not like a big business thing, but think about, “Oh, I’m going to drink water every day,” and what happened in the process of that? Are you still drinking water every day? Or did something get in the way of that, and what got in the way of that? That can help to really see, in a very non-threatening way, or a non-intimidating way, how self-sabotage might be showing up. So it could be, you procrastinated drinking water, so then you never drink any. It could be, “Oh, I’ll never drink water every day, so I don’t mind if I [inaudible 00:36:11] now.”

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
“I’m not drinking water perfectly.” ? It seems almost funny, but it really can show up in those little examples. But through working with my clients, I came up with eight types of self-sabotaging. These really cover, I would say, the majority of self-sabotaging types that usually come up for creative and entrepreneurs. I’ll say what the eight are.

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley:
I’ll explain a couple, because only a couple, you might not know what they mean by the name. But some of them you’ll be like, “Yeah, that’s me.” So like you mentioned, there’s the Perfector, and that type is like, “I feel so safe when things are perfect.”

Jessmyn:
That was me.

Ashley:
It’s a big one. It’s honestly a big one. The People Pleaser. “I feel safest when other people are happy.”

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley:
The Procrastinator is, “I feel safe when things are chaotic, when I’m feeling the heat.” The Assumer. This one needs a little bit of an explanation. This is actually the most popular quiz result, which I found so fascinating. But the Assumer, you can always tell the Assumer is operating because the way that people talk is a very big clue. So they’ll say things like, “I’m not going to launch that thing because people would never sign up anyway.”

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley:
Or, “I’m not going to hire a coach because I would never be able to afford it anyway.”

Jessmyn:
Ah.

Ashley:
It’s like they’re making these assumptive statements about [inaudible 00:37:55] go. And so the Assumer is like, “I’m safest when things are familiar.” So when they don’t know what’s going to happen, they’re going to revert to those assumptions. And then we have the Overworker, which a lot of entrepreneurs can probably relate to, and this one is, “I feel safest when I’m busy. Let’s stay busy.”

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
Then we have the Overthinker, which is another big one that comes up for creatives, especially people who are true artists. And this is like, “I’m safest when someone else tells me what to do.”

Jessmyn:
Oh.

Ashley:
So they’re going to be like, “I’m going to take all the courses, read all the articles.”

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
But they become very paralyzed.

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ashley:
My type actually is the Shamer, and this type is the one where it’s like, “I feel safest when things are going bad.”

Jessmyn:
Interesting.

Ashley:
And so, a lot of people have a fear of success, for example.

Jessmyn:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Ashley:
They may fall into the Shamer, because they’re like, “Things are going well. Sabotage!” And then the last one is the Guardian. This one, more I would say, shows up in relationships, so this is like, “I’m safest when people don’t really know me.” And so it could show up if you’re hiring a team, if you’re hiring someone to help you, like a coach or something. It could even show up in clients. So if you’re in the Guardian type, you might actually really be scared to do one on one work.

Jessmyn:
Oh, interesting.

Ashley:
[crosstalk 00:39:40]. So yeah, those are the eight types. I think I said all eight. I’m pretty sure I did.

Jessmyn:
I wasn’t counting, but…

Ashley:
Well, someone will listen, and they’ll be like, “That wasn’t eight.”

Jessmyn:
They’re going to write in and say, “That was only seven.” No, it sounded about eight, I think. Oh my gosh, now I’ll have to go back and look. But no, that’s super interesting. I guess when people are figuring out which one is their… and honestly, even listening to all of them, it kind of sounds like, at least for me, I could fit into a little bit of other ones. And so, my two questions are, when someone figures that out, what’s the process from there? And then also, say, for me for example, I got Perfector, and listening to you speak about all of them, I’m like, oh actually, I think I could fit into a couple of those other things. Is that something that is important to figure out also? Or should you focus on that one type?

Ashley:
Yeah. Well, I would say it’s definitely one of those things where it’s like, I always say you’ll have a dominant type. And I would focus on that, because what will happen sometimes is that the self-sabotaging types will partner up, and so they kind of create a cycle. So there are common partnerings, like for example, Perfectionism and Procrastination too. Or Shamer and the Guardian could be another one. And so, normally, if you’re seeing multiple ones, it’s probably just because they’re operating in the same pattern,, or inside of you. But what is the dominant one? and that’s really what that quiz was meant to be, was figuring out what the dominant type.

Ashley:
And so, really start with that. I mean, one of the things that I get people to do when they’re looking at, you seem like a self-sabotage, is starting to map out what is the cycle of their self-sabotaging? We can have multiple cycles, so we really just focus on one at a time. But when you’re starting to map out what that cycle looks like, you’ll probably see multiple self-sabotaging types come up in that cycle. So for example, I’ll just use that same example of Perfectionist and Procrastinator. So you’ll be like, “I want to do this thing. It’s going to be amazing.” And then you’re like, “Oh, but it has to be perfect.”

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
“If it’s not perfect, this will happen, or this will happen, and so I need to protect myself from those things.” And so in order… so then maybe the next step of the cycle is like, “Oh, I’m go do it tomorrow.” Or, “I’m going to work on it tomorrow. I’m going to work on it next week. Maybe we should just push it a year from now.”

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
And then that could even… And then that can bring in a sense of shame. Like, “I always have these ideas, but I never see them through.” And then that can create a whole other story that you start to believe about yourself, and it starts to just, becomes a cycle that you just sort of continuously stay in.

Jessmyn:
Wow.

Ashley:
So yeah, focus on your dominant type, is my answer to that question.

Jessmyn:
Interesting. No, yeah, that’s really cool. A big question that I had coming in too, interviewing you today was, so you work mostly with… of course this can happen in other types of people, but you work mostly with entrepreneurs, creatives, like people who have an online business. Why is this important? Why is figuring out your self-sabotage type important for your business?

Ashley:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Ultimately, I feel like it’s important for two reasons. Number one, if you’re a creative entrepreneur and you’re operating in self-sabotage, the world isn’t getting to see the full brilliance that you are. Your work is being held back. Your giftedness and magic is being held back. Self-sabotage won’t allow you to give your full expression.

Ashley:
And then the second thing is, I believe in supporting entrepreneurs and creatives to be emotionally healthy. It is very hard to be in a place of emotional wellness in a place that, I feel loved and supported, and taken care of by myself, when you’re operating in self-sabotage because you’re just caught in a lot of these different cycles that bring up shame in all of that. And so, those I would say are the two most important things. But then I would also say that it’s also important to talk about I think, with creatives, because a lot of the times, what we’re putting out is our… we’re putting out our work, and that can feel incredibly vulnerable. If self-sabotage is about keeping ourselves safe, it would make sense that we would practice self-sabotage at our most vulnerable.

Jessmyn:
Ah, interesting.

Ashley:
I would actually feel like it’s a great place to heal your self-sabotage, because it holds such a vulnerability.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
Yeah, I was just talking about something similar with Bree who was our last episode, and I was kind of mentioning how your emotional side and your own self care is so important for your business, because I mean, it’s everything actually. Because that’s how you carry yourself. If you’re not taking care of yourself, you could burn yourself out, and then where does your business go from there? And it is super vulnerable. I feel like you do have to be really in touch with who you are and your emotional side to be able to give yourself in your business, and to the people that you serve.

Ashley:
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think that’s true. I think there was a message out there a little bit of… which I’m very passionate about speaking to. Really, these messages of harshness, of… even sometimes there’s a little bit of a violence, I find, in this language of, “Who cares what you’re feeling. No excuses. Just keep going.”

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
Or, “Sleep when you’re dead.” Like, “Kick your fear to the side.” And so sometimes I feel like there’s this messaging… It’s really this messaging of like, “Who cares about emotional wellness? Just get it done.” And so sometimes I find people start to get into this space of looking at these patterns. They’re like, “I’ll never get anything done if I look at being gentler with myself, or healing.” But the opposite is definitely true, that not only will you get more done, but that you’ll feel better on the inside.

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, I love that. That actually reminds me of when I had graduated, and I was looking for jobs. One of my cousins was helping me prep for interviews. It was my first interviews ever for the real life. But one of the things that really stuck with me that she said was, “Don’t tell them you want to work-life balance.” You’re at the time, 22. I don’t even remember how old I was. Like 20? Anyway, I was in my early 20s… God, I can’t even remember how old I was anymore. I was in my early 20s, and one of the things that she had said was, “Don’t tell them you want to work-life balance, because at your age, you have all this energy, and they don’t want that.” And I remember thinking to myself at the time, that that really sucks, because you know, “What? I don’t want to spend my entire day working.” But at the time I didn’t know any better, so of course, I stayed away from saying anything like that, or looking for any type of position that was like that.

Jessmyn:
And even now so, now that I’m in this position now at Interact, one of the biggest things that we always talk about at this company is taking care of yourself. And so, I literally spend from, when I start work at 8:30 or 9:00 depending on my mood for the day, but all the way until like 5:00 or 6:00 p.m. and then after the fact, I make it a point to stop what I’m doing, and then actually cook dinner, exercise, or go for a walk, maybe I need to go to the store, and even sometimes it’s watching an episode of whatever show I’m watching at the time. And I remember even just a couple days ago, thinking to myself, “How does anybody have time for anything?” And if you’re in this culture of, “I literally need to work to get where I want to be every single second of my life,” then you’re going to burn yourself out. You’re not going to get there, and it’s going to be this whole thing. And so anyway, another anecdote of mine, but…

Ashley:
I love these anecdotes.

Jessmyn:
Oh, thank you. That’s what I’m saying, is that I was so excited to do this episode, because I was like, I could talk forever about this. It is just so important to think about, and I mean, for me, I think what’s really interesting about what you do with self-sabotage is, I feel pretty grateful that this now where, at least in my world, business is moving towards, and a lot of people are starting to talk about, because I’m still in my 20s. So I’m thinking about the people who are now maybe well into their late 30s, or even into their 40s, or even about to retire, and they’re like, “I spent most of my life working,” you know? And I think that that sucks.

Ashley:
Yeah, it does suck.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
That realization.

Jessmyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So I guess my next question about self-sabotage from here ism what’s that point that you know, or you can start feeling like you’re healing?

Ashley:
That’s good question. I feel like one of the first things that people get to is when they really start to notice it. To me, that would be the initial sign of healing. And especially when they can notice it, and just notice it. Not be like, “Ugh, that again.” Or be mean to themselves about it, shame themselves for it. Healing your self-sabotage should never lead to shame, and should never lead to being mean, or to trying to fix yourself. It is this point where people can notice like, “Oh, this is happening. How interesting that this happening. This is information that I’m seeing this happen.”

Ashley:
I always say too… I mean, we didn’t really talk about this, but the way that I approach self-sabotage is that it’s kind of made up of three parts. So it’s like you in this now moment. Your self-sabotage, which I will often call your protector, and then your inner child, those parts of you that carry those initial wounds. And so normally the dynamic between the three is that you’re not even thinking about them, as like you in here now. You’re not thinking like, “Oh, how’s my inner child doing with this [inaudible 00:51:55]?” I mean, in general, people don’t think that. And so, you’ll be like, “Oh, I’m going to do this thing, it’s going to be amazing.” And then your inner child is like, “What are you doing? That’s so scary, and I’m so overwhelmed.” And so, the inner child will sort of flag the self-sabotage and say, “You need to get involved. You need to get involved right now.” And that’s when we have that moment.

Ashley:
Whenever someone says to me, “I keep doing this thing, but I don’t know why.” I’m like, “Your inner child knows why.”

Jessmyn:
Oh, that’s a deep thought. I will say, after kind of working through all this myself, I do start to think a lot about where in my past this might have originated from, or why, but I never thought of it in that respect of three parts, and really tuning into what your inner child is saying. I think that’s a really cool and / interesting way to look at it.

Ashley:
Yeah. And yet another thing I say is that your inner child… if you’re self-sabotaging, it’s probably because your inner child is overwhelmed or is afraid. And so sometimes too, if you find yourself starting to self-sabotage, you can just say like, you just say to yourself, “Oh, my inner child is overwhelmed and afraid right now. How can I soothe my inner child?” Or, “How can I speak to my inner child in a way that lets it know it’s going to be okay?” Another big thing that I’ll do is or get people to do is inner child check-ins.

Ashley:
So even before, for example, in the example I just gave, if you’re going to be doing this big thing, you’re going to launch a course. But check-in with your inner child first. So [inaudible 00:53:43]. How do you feel about this? [inaudible 00:53:48]. Are you scared? What would help you feel supported through this process? What would help you know that it’s going to be okay, or that you’re not alone, or that even if it did go well, or even if it failed, or even if people were upset, what could I tell you, or what could I show you to let you know that it’s going to be okay, or that everyone [inaudible 00:54:15].

Ashley:
Because then, what you’re doing by doing that initial check-in, is one, you’re staying connected to the part of you that might still be carrying some of those wounds, and sort of really taking care of them in the process, so that they don’t need to get your attention in the middle of it and be like, “I’m scared. Fix this.” And it’s almost a way to curb self-sabotaging those very specific moments. Yeah, I thought I’d mention that.

Jessmyn:
No, I think that’s good. I think that kind of brings up another question for me, but it’s kind of just going back to the whole check in with yourself, but I didn’t think of it as in a pre-emptive way at first. And now you saying that, it’s like, okay what I’m about to do a big project, that’s another place to check-in. So the question for me, hearing that is, is there I guess a number, or how often, or in what places should you be checking in with yourself?

Ashley:
Yeah. Well, no, I definitely don’t think there’s a number. But-

Jessmyn:
Five. Just kidding.

Ashley:
Yeah. But I think, because the more you get to know your inner child, the more you get to know your protectors. You’re going to start to know what are the specific types of situations that really send you into fear and overwhelm, which then activate the self-sabotage.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
That’s when you’ll know, this is a time where I really need to make the checking in a priority. You can figure out what some of those might be through your self-sabotage types. For example, it’s going to be different if you’re a People Pleaser versus…

Jessmyn:
Ah, I see what you mean.

Ashley:
People pleasing, already off the bat, you know that if your biggest fear is that someone’s going to be upset at you, and what that means for you, than you know if you’re going to say something controversial online, or if you’re going to stand up for yourself, or if you’re going to set a boundary, you’re going to really need to up those check-ins. So you can tell some initially off the bat of that, but I think it’s really a process of really getting to know yourself, and getting to know, what are those tender and soft spots that you need to continuously create more support for, and that just come through the journey of getting to know yourself, and getting to know how your self-sabotage works, and mapping that stuff out, and where are you really still hurting?

Ashley:
And that’s the whole thing too. I think about healing self-sabotage is not black and white. It’s not like one day I’m broken, one day I’m healed, but it’s just an ongoing process of really just learning how to support yourself, and offer yourself what you need. And often I find perfectionists will kind of create that black and white thinking in their mind of, at one point, like, “This won’t be a problem anymore.” There will be that perfection of healing. And so, just knowing that that’s not… one, it’s not going to happen. Two, it’s another way you’re trying to protect yourself. And three, the goal is support. Support yourself in the messy, in the good, and everything in between.

Jessmyn:
So, you went in this whole process, even admitting to yourself, “This is something that pertains to me, or something that I need to actually look into,” is a really vulnerable decision to make. I guess for people out there who are kind of like, “Eh, this may be a self-sabotage thing, but…” Maybe they’re thinking, “Oh, that sounds like maybe something I need, but I don’t want to open it up,” I guess you could say? “I don’t want to open up any of that. I don’t want to deal with it. I don’t want to go through it.” At what point do you think it’s absolutely necessary? Do you think people can still be successful in their businesses without figuring this stuff out?

Ashley:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think you can still be successful, for sure, depending on how [inaudible 00:58:53] for you. But you’re going to pay a cost somewhere. So if it’s not in success, you might be paying it in relationships, you might be paying it in your emotional health, you might be paying it financially. Because with self-sabotage, it’s like, you have to come to a point of, where are you paying a price you don’t want to? So for example, there might be some areas of self-sabotage that you don’t want to change, and that’s totally fine. But I think it’s really looking at, one of the things I talked about is like, when self-sabotage creates a conflict with your values, then that’s going to be of an utmost importance to heal, because someone who’s conflicted in values, there’s a… It’s hard to move through the world like that. And so for example, I don’t know, we value really loving people well. You’re going to want to heal people pleasing. You’re going to want to heal hurting. You’re going to want to heal shaming. So looking at it like that, but also knowing, it doesn’t all need to be changed.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
It’s up to you to really decide that. Yeah. So I know that was the last part of your question. What was the first part?

Jessmyn:
I think that was it.

Ashley:
Okay. Okay.

Jessmyn:
Yeah, yeah. No, I was just… Yeah, that was it. I think for me, it was just kind of, the whole reason behind the question is, [Mia 01:00:40]. I mean, I’m still young. I’m not acting like I’m super old and wise, and all of a sudden, realized I needed this. But for me at least, it’s something that I didn’t know for so long, and until it happened, it wasn’t overnight. It wasn’t something that I had… all of a sudden had a light bulb, and went straight into it, figuring this out, and doing all this stuff. It was this whole process of for a long time, at least for me, I knew that I needed to make some kind of change in my emotional life. I needed to take care of myself better.

Jessmyn:
It wasn’t until though, that I figured out what it was that then I knew how to move forward. But for the longest time, I was like, “You know what? Everyone’s like this. This is probably just how life is. And when you have your own personal goals, whether it’s with work, with your business, or with your life, this is just regular things that people go through.” And it wasn’t until I realized, oh, I can actually do something about it, that then I made the move into doing that. So, I think where my follow-up question from my last question is also just, how do you know when it’s right to make that step? Or how do you know when this is something that you actually need, and to start making those moves?

Ashley:
Yeah. Well first, your question also grabs another point, which I wanted to make. Sometimes we internalize those [inaudible 01:02:10] as part of our personality. A very not intimidating way people do this, for example is like, I’m just someone who’s always late. I can never be on time.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
I feel like I always bring that up, because one, I hate when we people are late, but I’m like everyone. But that’s an example of when people are like, “Oh, I’m just late person.” Or, “I’m just someone who loves doing things last minute.” Is that actually true, or is that just the way to make your self-sabotage seem more tolerable?

Jessmyn:
Yeah, that’s a good question. A

Ashley:
So I think it’s [inaudible 01:03:01] to look at that, but I would say really guiding yourself through some questions like, is my self-sabotage impacting how I feel day to day? Is it impacting my relationships? Is it impacting my business success? Is it impacting my decision-making? Really looking at the full impact of what your self-sabotage is doing for you, and you’ll know from those answers whether it’s time to heal. Now, the other part is, maybe you’re not ready. I feel I’m a strong believer, like you need to be ready, and you really need to make the decision for yourself. Because otherwise you just will… If you’re not ready, you’re not going to [inaudible 01:03:53] process anyway, so what’s the point? And so, really asking yourself, am I ready for this? Am I ready to look at these patterns? Am I ready to feel what’s going on underneath? Am I ready maybe to look at some of the suffering that I’m still holding on to? And not in a bad way. Not like, ugh, I’m still holding on to that, but in a way of like, wow, that still hurts. And how can we bring gentleness to that? So that’s I would say, how you know, but I really want to encourage everyone who’s listening, this is not me saying like, “Oh, I can’t.” That’s not me saying, go out and heal everything, but go out and decide, “Am I ready? Is this something that I want? Is the cost I’m paying too high? And what’s this going to look like for me?”

Ashley:
And knowing too that you can do it so slowly. We definitely don’t heal these things overnight at all. We built these cycles over lifetimes, and so be gentle with yourself and patient with yourself, and know that you can literally take it as far as you want. The most important ingredient for me is just keep showing yourself so much compassion, [inaudible 01:05:19] validation of, it makes sense that you’re self-sabotaging if you’re afraid. It makes sense that you’re self-sabotaging if you feel overwhelmed, it makes sense that you’re self-sabotaging if you have trauma in the past. So yeah, I think those are important things to remember too.

Jessmyn:
Yeah, I love that. I think it’s just so next level to the regular, here’s how to make a hundred dollars in an hour. It is really vulnerable. It’s not easy, but I do think it’s important. And for those out there who are thinking about things like this, whether it is self-sabotage or you’re just like, “I need to be more in tune with myself,” I think that’s also something that’s really important as well.

Ashley:
Yeah, totally.

Jessmyn:
Wow. Okay, we had a lot. We said a lot. I don’t think I have any follow-up questions from that, unless you have anything else whether it be about your own story and your journey, or all about self-sabotage. I have a couple last-minute questions, and that’s it.

Jessmyn:
Oh, hi Kitty. He said he wanted to be in it too.

Ashley:
He’s got [inaudible 01:06:46]. I would say that, I think maybe the only remaining stuff that I have on it too is that is maybe just a re-emphasis of things I’ve already said, that the self-sabotage that you might be experiencing, like maybe that first response is noticing, but like maybe what is the response after you notice? And I would say that when you start noticing, because I was actually thinking, I had other answers to one of the questions, and then I didn’t keep going. Because when you had asked me, what are signs that you’re healing?

Jessmyn:
Oh, yeah.

Ashley:
The first one was noticing, and then I went all the way off way off on a whole thing. The second thing is how you respond to yourself. [crosstalk 01:07:37]. So you respond by validating, like, “This makes sense that I’m doing this,” or like, “It’s hard right now.” Especially when we look at what we’re going through right now. Our thresholds for feeling overwhelmed is much smaller, like we are more easily overwhelmed, or more easily afraid, or more easily stressed, and so things feel like grace and gentleness for ourselves in a season like this, but responding to yourself what that validation, with compassion, with gentleness. Like instead of saying… one of the biggest keys I think I see with clients is moving from, “How do I fix this?” To, “How can I support myself here?”

Jessmyn:
I love that.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
Because it also kind of brings into the fact that you’re not necessarily broken. There’s nothing wrong with you, but you can take care of yourself.

Ashley:
Yeah, and you could always do something to support yourself.

Jessmyn:
I think for me too, it’s just this journey of not only living emotionally healthier, but just happier. Like waking up in the morning and not dreading going to work, or like not dreading, like, “Great, it’s another Monday.” I think a lot of stuff online, I’m kind of going back to the whole, when you see really degrading messages of… God, I can’t think of what we said now, but what you know what I mean. Just the whole, “You can just sleep when you’re dead,” [inaudible 01:09:21] kind of a thing? I think that it stems from all of that, and you need to take care of your emotional self so that way you can wake up and be like, “Actually, I’m totally ready for today. It is Monday, but I actually have some goals that I’m working towards.” And I know at least for myself… I don’t know, it just changes something in you to where you don’t have to think like, “Ugh, another Monday.” Like, “Yeah on Mondays, I’m still tired, but I’m not hating my Monday or hating myself on Mondays,” kind of a thing, and it’s a totally different type of perspective, and totally different mindset.

Ashley:
Yeah. One of the other things I would say is, if you are… it takes a lot of energy to [crosstalk 01:10:04].

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
If you’re not self-protecting, that leaves all this energy that you get to use for creativity, and joy, and space, and connection. One of the questions I always get people to answer is, what would you be doing, or what would life look like if you weren’t working so hard all the time to keep yourself safe?

Jessmyn:
That’s a big question. I love that.

Ashley:
For some people, it’s so much of their life is spent trying to stay safe. And I know that from a very personal place. And so much opens up, and so much becomes free when you allow yourself to [inaudible 01:10:55] safety and surrender to that need to self-sabotage all the time.

Jessmyn:
I love that.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
I love that. That’s a good ending out.

Ashley:
Wrap it up, put a bow on it.

Jessmyn:
And hopefully everyone learned something from this, and you also are a little bit easier on yourself. If you didn’t notice that this is something that you do, or you’re not quite ready to be vulnerable yet, just be easy on yourself, you know? Be easy on yourself. Nice. Well, thank you so much Ashley, for sharing your story, and then also sharing more about self-sabotage. My last couple questions before we hop into more of the nitty-gritty, like where can we find you and all that, they’re a little bit… they’re questions that I ask everybody, because I want to add a little bit of a twist to our episodes, but the first one is, what are three things that most people wouldn’t know about you?

Ashley:
Okay, yes. Number one, I really don’t like spicy food.

Jessmyn:
Oh, wow, really?

Ashley:
Yeah. [inaudible 01:12:05]. I have pretty bland taste as in like, I didn’t even have pepper at my house, like salt and pepper. And so, I bought it recently because I have people over.

Jessmyn:
Just in case.

Ashley:
Just in case. Number two, this is a little quirky thing about me that you only know if you were close to me, but when I’m tired, without thinking about it, I always rub my feet together.

Jessmyn:
You always wear what?

Ashley:
I start rubbing my feet together.

Jessmyn:
Oh, really? Oh, that’s interesting.

Ashley:
Yeah, I Googled it once, and apparently, some things that people do, it’s like a self-soothing thing.

Jessmyn:
That makes sense. I used to wear… well, I don’t have them on right now, but I wear earrings, and I noticed a lot of times in the middle of me working, I would twirl and play with [crosstalk 01:12:58].

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
And I guess now that I don’t wear earrings, sometimes I’ll tug on my earlobe.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
That’s interesting. I didn’t even know that was… I guess I didn’t even think about it. I just knew that I did it, but…

Ashley:
Yeah. Probably you’re self-soothing.

Jessmyn:
Yeah. Wow. Okay, what’s the third?

Ashley:
The third one is that I don’t drive.

Jessmyn:
Oh, really?

Ashley:
I don’t have my license, yeah.

Jessmyn:
That’s wild.

Ashley:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jessmyn:
That’s wild. Can I ask where you go? Or how do you…

Ashley:
Well…

Jessmyn:
How do you get to places?

Ashley:
I live a city, so that helps. So I take the bus, or Uber, or I take the train, or the plane.

Jessmyn:
Yeah. [crosstalk 01:13:48], because I live in a more suburb-y kind of area, so I think there’s public… oh no, there is public transportation, I’ve seen buses. But it’s more useful if you have a car, so I think my first thought based on my own experience was, wait…

Ashley:
Yeah it definitely depends on the city. There are some cities [inaudible 01:14:10] transit, and some who…

Jessmyn:
Yeah, when I used to live… okay, so I used to live in San Francisco, and probably if we had talked about this at that time, I would have been like, oh, okay cool.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
You know? But now I’m just so used to driving that…

Ashley:
It is funny, because I grew up in a small town.

Jessmyn:
Ah.

Ashley:
You’d think that would have motivate me.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
But no.

Jessmyn:
But I mean, if you live in a city, you don’t really need…

Ashley:
Yeah.

Jessmyn:
You don’t really need a car, and most bigger cities, I’m sure you have to pay for parking everywhere you go, and it’s hard to find parking in general. I know that was an issue when I was in San Francisco. I don’t have a car at all while I was there.

Ashley:
Yeah. I ran in fact too, because I live in Ottawa, Canada. It’s the capital city of Canada, for in case anyone doesn’t know. And so a lot of government workers who live in the suburbs take public transit downtown because of the whole issue of parking and…

Jessmyn:
Yeah. It’s a whole other thing. It’s a whole-

Ashley:
Because I know some people have this… We’re really getting into this. Some people have this whole stereotype on transit that only people who are low-income take transit.

Jessmyn:
Oh, really?

Ashley:
Yeah, but I think that it depends on the city.

Jessmyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ashley:
It depends on the city Some it’s like, everyone take transit. Then there’s some cities where it’s like, not everyone takes transit.

Jessmyn:
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that’s interesting. I never thought of it that way, because I mean at least in the Bay Area, you’d be almost crazy to take your car unless you have one of those monthly parking spots or something like that, or you had… I know some people in my family have an actual garage that they pay for. Yeah, it’s wild. It’s a whole thing. But I know I’m dying [crosstalk 01:16:15].

Ashley:
It’s whole episode, really.

Jessmyn:
Yeah, it is. It is, it’s a whole episode. Okay, cool. My last question was, if you could give yourself at the start of it all, or even maybe any of the times that you were about to pivot in your business, if you were going to give yourself a single piece of advice, what would it be?

Ashley:
I think the piece of advice that I would give myself is, it’s honestly, heal.

Jessmyn:
OH, I love that.

Ashley:
Yeah. You’ll be able to feel more yourself, make more confident decisions, become more resilient to failure and criticism the more that you heal.

Jessmyn:
I like that a lot. I like that. Well, thank you again for sharing with us, and being on with me today. I know we had a longer recording, because we are going to split this into two, and we had a lot to talk about. But before we do hop off, you have a Summit coming up in March. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? And then also, where can people find you online?

Ashley:
Yeah. I’m so excited that we’re doing this Summit. It’s called the Slow Business Retreat, and it is happening from March 15th to 19th, and it’s all about exploring, what does it look like to create and run and lead a business that might be slower, but that really prioritizes our well-being, our emotional and mental well-being, especially in a culture that really does celebrate hustle and speed. And we’re going to really move through a bunch of different themes around, what is slow business, [inaudible 01:18:12] that harshness and hustle. How do we really lead intentionally in our businesses, and really work intentionally? Which I’m excited for Interact to be a part of that.

Jessmyn:
Yeah.

Ashley:
So yeah, definitely join us. It’ll be free to, so keep your eye out, and you can register for the waitlist. Currently, if you want to be like, “I need to be there,” for when all this stuff live. But otherwise you could find me and definitely talk to me, DM me [inaudible 01:18:47]. My DMs are not closed, they’re very much open. And ashley.beaudin on Instagram, or you can take the quiz too, at ashleybeaudin.com/quiz.

Jessmyn:
Awesome.

Ashley:
Yep.

Jessmyn:
Thank you. All right guys, and we’ll also post those in the transcript as well. My gosh, my voice is giving out now. Thank you so much everybody for listening, and until next time. We’ll see you soon.

Make Your Own Quiz For Free