Ep. 136

Optimize ConvertKit with Your Interact Quiz with Preston and Melissa from ConvertKit

In this episode of Interact’s Grow Podcast, Team Interact is joined by Preston, the Creator Growth Manager, and Melissa, the Deliverability Specialist at ConvertKit. They dive deep into best practices for setting up email automations, improving deliverability, and engaging subscribers effectively. Tune in for expert advice and actionable tips!

Hi guys. And welcome back to Interact’s Grow podcast. It’s so great to be with you as always. I’m your host, Jessmyn Solana, and we have a very special episode this week because we have our friends from convert kit, welcome Preston and Melissa. Hello. Hello. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Thanks for having us.

I know we talked a little bit about your guys roles and I said, you could go ahead and jump with it. Can you please introduce yourselves to our listeners? Yes. Preston, you go ahead. Take, take it away. Sure. Sure. So yeah, my name is Preston. I am the technical creator growth manager here at ConvertKit. So I work with our larger creators, uh, basically just to make sure that they have everything that they need to be successful, but with a, a With an emphasis on kind of the more technical aspects of ConvertKit, like setting up automations and, um, making sure that their setup in ConvertKit is conducive to whatever strategies that they, that they have, those sorts of things.

We’re very thankful for Preston because we needed all the technical help. I do my best. Um, I’m Melissa Lambert and I am the deliverability lead at ConvertKit. So I just do my best to help people reach the inbox of their subscribers, stay out of the spam folder and stay up, stay like on top of industry news.

There’s been a lot of it in deliverability the last, like. You know, six to 12 months. So yeah, that’s what I do. I love that. So you guys work very closely with customers and making sure that their ConvertKit accounts are working successfully and how it’s supposed to work. I love that. I love that and we’re really excited to have you guys on because we did get to meet you in person, which doesn’t happen often on our show since we are fully remote, um, at the Craft and Commerce conference a couple weeks ago in Boise.

Am I saying it right? Boise? Yes. Yes. Boise. Perfect. Um, it’s funny. Last, last week I was like, oh God, I, I heard I’m saying it wrong and I don’t know what it is. It’s a thing for sure. It is. It’s funny because I’m not. I, so I’m, I’m here in Boise now, but I’m not native to Boise. And the first time I had a, I had a college roommate who’s from, who’s from Boise and I was like, Oh, okay.

Boise. And he’s like, and he’s like, it’s not, he’s like, it’s, he goes, it’s not Boise. There’s no Z in there. It’s Boise. Very, very technical, very particular. I’m like, Like, we’re all wrong because Boise is, like, French, and so It’s probably the swah. No, the blah, like, we’re all saying it wrong. We need to get a French person in here.

It’s funny that we could be, like, so particular about mispronouncing a word, you know what I mean? I know, yeah. People are very passionate about wherever they’re from. There’s always something. You have to mispronounce it correctly. Yes. There you go. At least when, if you say Boise, it’s, it’s a common mispronunciation.

Very true. We still know what you’re talking about. We will hold it against you. This is totally off topic, but have you guys seen that video came out like a few years ago of that lady and how she pronounced microwave? No, she said, and I think it was a joke, but she said, and it was this, you guys gotta look it up.

It was the craziest thing I’ve seen online and people were like, how can she not know how to say microwave? And people were like, I think she’s joking. But I was like, this is the point though to like, make people wonder like, and talk about it. You know, she’s just trying to find ways to like, like, Magicka per life, and it just sounds so much more fun if you’re going to link the video in the show notes for this episode.

Microwave. That literally sounds like if I’m reading it in Spanish, actually. That’s kind of interesting. That is interesting. Microwave. Oven. I love it. I love it. So thank you for having us in Boise and we did get to see your guys’s cool studios that you just launched and also with the announcement of the rebrand from convert kit to kit.

Are you guys officially going by kit yet? Or when does that happen? So the transition happens in September. Um, gosh, I hope I’m getting this right. You’re right. I just like double checked Reddit earlier because I was like, I think this is something we need to be able to confirm. We also talked to, we talked to Shiv yesterday and he also said September.

So you’re spot on. I’m over here. Like, I’m like, where’s, where’s the internal doc, um, the, uh, no, so it’s, yeah, it is, it’s September, which I definitely knew for sure and did not have any doubts about. Yeah. And that’s when we’re going to be making the full transition. And, and until then we, there’s a lot of ConvertKit soon to be known as kit written places.

I think I probably, I need to change, I need to change my email signature still. But yeah, it’s pretty exciting. I need that transition time to remember that it’s no longer ConvertKit. Cause I, ever since I’ve been working at Interact. You guys have had the same names. Yeah. I know I’ve been typing it for like seven years, I think, or six years.

I’ve been at ConvertKit. So I was thinking about that the other day. I was like, I mean, in a way I’m like, well, I’m kind of excited because ConvertKit is, is kind of hard to type. I also feel like when you’re at a conference and you’re in a loud space and you’re trying to say like ConvertKit, it’s hard to enunciate.

So if that’s, if anything, I’m excited for this. I love that. I love that. The simplicity of it. It’s the little, it’s the little things. Yeah. The little things. Well, today we are going to say, we’re going to try to remember to say kit, convert kit, soon to be all of it. And I said it completely backwards, but we are going to get the inside scoop for our listeners on, you know, just the best way to use convert kit with quizzes.

And I got to see this. Live at the conference. So I’m really excited to kind of get down and dirty and sort of what, what’s the best way to use it. You know, not so much like, like exactly showing how to do it, but like the best practices.

I, I guess I can start us off if you don’t mind, Jess, because for the longest time before I met you both, um, I was teaching people the wrong way, like 100%, like, and then I sat with Preston and I was like, mind blown, like, well, I’ve been doing wrong. I’ve been doing this wrong for this whole time through, through quizzes for people that are listening.

Like you are able to connect your quiz with ConvertKit directly to direct integration. And so. A big question that I used to get all the time was what’s the difference between a sequence in a form and why should I pick the other one versus this one, right? And so I always used to instruct them to select the sequence and then go from there at a tag, not a tag.

We didn’t have tags before. And then, you know, do the subscriber field. Um, and then Preston corrected me and found a different, more eyeopening way of doing it. So now I’m interested to sort of, uh, hear from you or from you guys, like. Why is that a best practice? Right? Like, why is that something that you recommend?

Yeah. So this is the kind of stuff that I handle in my day to day job a lot for, I guess, just for like some brief background, like before, before I came to ConvertKit, I was just a general email marketing consultant and I worked in whatever ESP. Uh, the client wanted me to, right? So I built a lot of technical systems, lots of different kinds of funnels.

I’ve done, I’ve done quiz funnels and things, uh, every ESP, including ConvertKit has like little quirks that make them, that make them a little bit different. Uh, without getting too in the weeds, I’ll just say that you can technically drop somebody directly in a sequence in ConvertKit, uh, Through a bulk action or an API call in this case with interact, it’s an API call, but it presents some, it presents some challenges.

Like I said, I don’t want to get too, too in the weeds about it. Um, but I believe that the better way to do to enroll a subscriber in a sequence is to do it through, um, a visual automation. So in, in interact, when you integrate with convert kit, you can. You can choose, are you going to just drop them directly in the sequence?

Are you going to apply a tag or update a custom field? Um, and you can trigger or subscribe them to a form and convert kit. You can trigger a visual automation, uh, and convert kit with. When a subscriber subscribes to a form, if they’re tagged or if a custom field is updated and then send them to a sequence through the visual automation, it just, uh, It makes things much easier in the long run.

And it also gives you like a single place where you can kind of see the, the customer journey, because when at the point of opt in, you see the entry node in this visual automation, and you can see how many subscribers came through that node it’s, it’s represented visually. And then you can see how many subscribers went into the sequence, um, after that.

And then you can from there do a bunch of really cool kind of like. Conditional logic to route people to the right places based on their answers. So that, that’s my long answer. Well, and just for clarification, for purposes, for people that are listening out there that do have convert kit and do have other quiz connected through this funnel, um, I’m assuming that in this particular case, The form selected through our integration would be considered almost like a list, right, that you’re forming so then you can then segment them out.

Is that correct? Right. Kind of, kind of, obviously, we’re just sort of loosely saying this terminology, but it’s, it’s like a main hub, for example, um, to then sort of filter through or segment how do you would like through visual automation. Correct. Correct. Yeah. So if you have used other, other ESPs, like a lot of, a lot of different, uh, softwares they might refer, they might.

refer to groups of subscribers as lists, and in integration sometimes it’ll ask you to like select a list. Um, usually the parallel there is you select a form in ConvertKit is usually how it goes. So But, but with the, the interact integration, you could also just directly apply a tag to that subscriber when they come in.

And then you could go look at the tag and see all the subscribers in that tag, and you’d be able to segment them that way. If you have them subscribe to a form, then you can go and look at. All the subscribers in that form. There’s, there’s lots of options. I would just say, don’t drop them directly in a sequence.

I think it’s ironic because that’s what I’ve been teaching this whole time. That’s why I was like, let me actually cover this because it makes sense. Yeah. Also like logically it makes sense. So I, like that meant people doing that. I wouldn’t even call it a mistake. I’d say that that’s what logically makes sense.

If you don’t, if you don’t know the bigger picture, but right. Yeah. Yeah, and like press and see some insane automations too. So I feel like, like really elaborate can do a lot. And I think when you start to play around with like the functionality, it becomes a little clearer sometimes of like, okay, this is actually setting me up for success down the road, but it would be really hard to know that if you like Preston said, didn’t have the bigger picture.

Um, because it is so powerful, like visual automations are so powerful, but um, it’s easy to like, start setting things up and, and to not know, like, down the road, like, oh, I wish I would have known this so that I could have set things up this way in order to make this part of my work. The journey a little easier.

And that’s why Preston is so good at what he does, because he knows all of those like tricks as to like, okay, what’s going to happen once this person has this customer journey and we want them to now do this next thing. And that is, yeah, that’s the cool thing about ConvertKit. I’ve also heard that from people like, Oh, but like there, it’s a little overwhelming and it’s like, yeah, I can do a lot.

So it’s helpful to have someone kind of like tell you from like their experience, how setting these kinds of things up can be more beneficial. Yeah, before we move on, I just want to reiterate for our interact users that use convert kit. Like the best practice that referring to is when you’re connecting your quiz to convert kit and you’re in the process of selecting either a sequence or a form, you would want to, if you want, of course, select the form, which would be.

A. K. A. in parenthesis, your lead, your list, and then from there you would want to add a tag or a subscriber field and go through the process. Just wanted to clarify that just in case I get questions, because, because you will. I’ll see, I’ll see if I can like, I’ll see if I can make a, uh, a ConvertKit template.

Um, like an automation template, and then you can include that in your, in your show notes. It might make it easier to visualize, but yeah, like on the interact side of things, you basically, you can tell interact, Hey, when somebody fills out this quiz, I want everybody who fills out this quiz to be subscribed to this form.

And then in convert kit, you can say, Hey, And you can pull up a visual automation and make a visual automation and say, when anybody who gets subscribed to this form, I then want to put them in this sequence. And that, that kind of thing, the, uh, and then based on their, their answers, like the actual results of their quiz, you could apply a different tag, depending on, depending on the result of the, of the quiz and route them to a unique sequence.

Based on their, on their answers. So I’ll go ahead and I’ll, I’ll include, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll put together like a template so you can put a link to that in your show notes. Cause it’s a lot easier to see than to explain it. To be, to be honest, maybe a podcast is like, actually not the best medium to describe that, but.

All right. We got to do this again. Use everybody like, Yeah, I think if people are, are, um, they’ve been using convert kit when they hear it, they might have a light bulb and they’ll be like, Oh, that makes so much more sense. Yeah. Usually if to, to be for people who do actively use convert kit. You can listen up and for anybody who doesn’t, or is not super familiar with the automations, you can like turn your ears off for 30 seconds and then download the template, but here’s what you should do when somebody, when somebody fills out the form or fills out the quiz, I mean, in interact, you’re going to set that up so that they get subscribed to a form in ConvertKit that corresponds to that, that quiz, that form is going to kick off a visual automation.

And, um, it’s going to send them to a, a condition path that’s, that looks at their tags and to interact, you’re going to make sure that depending on the, the, um, the result that they got from the quiz, that they get tagged according to that individual result. And then in this visual automation, you can say, Hey, if this person has tag a.

Send them to sequence a, if they have tag B, send them to sequence B, um, and C and D and et cetera. Uh, and that’s how you set it up in, in on the convert kit side of things. So everybody, typically the first email they get is going to have like quiz results and be very specific to their quiz results. And then you’d send them to, you’d send everybody after that.

To the same sequence. So they start out in separate sequences and then funnel down into the same sequence that usually has like More similar offers, but, but yeah, that’s like the basic setup. I’ll, I’ll give you, beautifully said, I’ll give you beautifully said . Thank you love. I love know, I, I don’t, I don’t know if you guys, yeah, everybody else can start listening again.

I dunno if you guys said this, but it’s, she’s lagging a little. When we met on site, Preston, you had said the reason you don’t want to drop them directly into the sequence is because as you build out the sequence, people who have finished. That flow will continue to get new emails that you’re adding on.

So, especially for people who are building their quiz, optimizing their quiz, it would be a really good idea to do what Preston’s saying, add them to a tag and a form, or could you just do the tag and then use the tag as a trigger? It has to be a form and then a tag. Okay. Yeah, I, I would add everybody who fills out the The, the quiz to a single form and then, and then based on the results that they get apply the appropriate tag.

So everybody should be subscribed to a single form and then you kind of further segment them with tags based on the results. And yeah, like I was trying to like, maybe it would not get too much into the weeds here, but the reason the, the, the technical reason that you don’t want to select the option to just drop them directly.

In a, in a sequence is because if somebody is a, is put in a sequence by API call or through a bulk action in convert kit, when they finish that sequence, the subscriber doesn’t ever technically leave the sequence. So if you were to go back and add additional emails, they would actually get those additional emails.

So if they are subscribed to a sequence through a visual automation, Then when they finish the sequence by default, they exit the sequence. So if you go back and make updates, you’d like to add additional emails to that sequence. You’re not going to have a bunch of people that you didn’t anticipate getting extra emails, getting those extra emails.

So it’s, but if you want, if you do want them to get those emails, there’s a setting that says like, If somebody’s enrolled via a visual automation in this sequence, go ahead and let them receive additional emails. If I add them in the future, there’s like a specific setting. So it just gives you more options.

So for anybody who’s already got their quiz and convert kit connected, and they’re using the sequence, is it as simple as just creating a form and convert kit, switching the sequence to a form and leaving all other settings the same? That’s what you guys would recommend? Yes. You know, it would really, it would really probably depend on the quiz.

It’s it sounds like if, if everybody’s being dropped into a single sequence, you could probably pretty easily switch that over. What you would do is you would, you’d build the automation and convert kit that when somebody, Is subscribed to that form, then they go into the, the sequence, uh, and you should be able to select that pre existing sequence in the automation builder.

So, you’re not going to have to, like, make a whole new sequence, probably depending on some settings, but probably you’re not going to have to make a whole new sequence. And then you would go into interact and change the settings to say, actually don’t put them directly in the sequence. Just subscribe them to this form.

Yep. And then, and then ConvertKit will take care of putting them in a sequence. So yeah, that’s all the technical stuff. Now that your audience has fallen asleep, we can . We can, I, I was gonna say that, um, I love that you clarified that though, because a lot of, one of the biggest questions we get is. Um, how do I send emails through interact?

And it’s like, no, we don’t send the emails. We help you move the lead into your email marketing platform, which then does that part of the work of, you know, making sure the messaging gets to them. Um, the segmentation is set up properly in there. And so this is a way for them to actually like differentiate, like, okay, what, what am I doing?

Where? Yeah, I would say, just to include, um, in our top 10 ask questions with Interact and ConvertKit on our side, because I see them every day, um, Now that we’ve introduced tags, just something to keep in mind their audience, now that we’ve introduced tags into Interact, um, you do, it is, you, it is a requirement to select either a form, Or a sequence, and then you can add a tag or subscriber field.

It’s not either or, so it’s just something to keep in mind as we’re just sort of discussing this, like you can’t just add tags and move on. You will get an error message at the end. So just wanted to call that out. Makes sense. Yeah. And it’s super useful though that you added tags. By the way, I would say this is actually true across like every ESP that I’ve ever worked in.

Tags are like magic start and stop buttons for almost every automation builder, not just ConvertKit. So like you, if you’re listening and you don’t use ConvertKit, if you use, you know, if you use, uh, keep or active campaign or whatever, most. Most automation builders in, in different ESPs, if you apply a tag, you can use that to start or stop an automation or control the flow of an automation.

So like the fact that you added that is so, so useful, like you were so excited. Yeah. I actually, the, the automation nerd in me is excited, legitimately excited for that. And I, and what’s, what’s funny is that I, I had built a, for a client like a couple of years ago, like before I came to ConvertKit, I built a client, uh, uh, quiz in interact, integrated it with another ESP.

And I, and I, I do remember that there was like a hiccup that I had to like figure out. And in retrospect, I think that that was it was that I couldn’t apply a tag. So, so I had to find a workaround to do what I wanted to do. Tags are so frigging useful in like on every level. It’s amazing. Yeah. We were super excited when this was introduced right before I went to the conference.

So for all the convert kit users, break a leg, use your dad or just add a tag. Yeah. Okay. Add a tag. This is a lot cheaper. So when we go disclaimer, she meant be amazing.

Jackie’s like, don’t sue us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, question on the ConvertKit side, if you’re like, I guess there’s two ways to look at it. People who are already using Interact, not ConvertKit, or they’re using, um, ConvertKit, not Interact, like how do you, how should you set, how should your ConvertKit segmentation be set up before you integrate it with a quiz?

Good, good question. Um, If, even if they’re not using interact. Yeah. Like, I guess like if they are looking to use interact, cause we always, for us, it’s when you do the API call, if you like try to set stuff up after it’s integrated, sometimes it like labs or doesn’t always show up. So we’re always like set up what you need, uh, what you want it to look like in your email marketing platform before you integrate it with your quiz.

So that way it’s just kind of clicking. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, So quickly, just to make sure that it is catered like a little bit more to people who do intend, and I can also. I can also talk about just like segmentation in general, but to make sure that we cater it to people who are looking to make a quiz, the, the simple, the simplest segmentation that you can do is you’re, you’re going to make your quiz and, and so that, you know, kind of what the quiz results are and you can, and you can think of those as segments.

So you have result 1, 2, and 3. For example, and then you’re going to go into convert kit and make those tags. So you’re going to make a tag. This is like quiz result. One quiz result, two quizzes, result three. You’d probably name them after the actual, whatever the name of the result is, so that it’s like, not as it’s not that confusing, but in this example, we have a really boring quiz that’s just like result one, two, or three.

Um, the, uh, so you’re going to name those tags after those quiz results. So you’re going to make them in convert kit. Um, as soon as you know what those results are, uh, and, and you’re also going to make that form that corresponds to, to your quiz. And you’re going to do that all ahead of time and then go back to Interact and integrate it with ConvertKit.

And that way when you’re selecting all the, all the tags and everything, they’re already populated. Like you can refresh the, the integration if you do things in the wrong order. Um, but it does make it a little easy, a little easier if you just get it done beforehand. Um, and then you should, you should be good to go.

Uh, in terms of just segmentation in general, was that the other half of the question, just like how to segment your list? Yeah, yeah. So you want to go. Sure. I mean, be careful questions like, can we work on this for 4 hours or how are we looking on time? Yeah. So, uh, in terms of, of making. Making segments that is going to be outside of the quiz.

Like the quiz is like a, it’s very easy. You’re like, okay, I have these results that are going to tell me something about my subscribers and their preferences or their, who they are. Those are like, that’s like a real no brainer kind of like segmentation scenario where I’ll tell you where people get in trouble is I think they make too many segments.

And I’m using the phrase segment here pretty. Pretty loosely in convert kit, you can make a quote unquote segment, which is basically a filtered list and you set the filter criteria in that you can go in and look at all subscribers. You meet that criteria. That’s like the technical segment in convert kit right now.

Just to like, be. Clear technical. Yeah, just to be just to be technical and clear right now. I’m using the word segment more loosely than that. I just mean, like, any list of people. However, you’re going to separate them from the rest of your list, whether they’re just added to a single tag and you have a list of people that way you could be using segments.

You could be using a custom field as the, as the criteria to. To separate people, but whatever you’re using to kind of like segment quote unquote segment your list. I think where people fall into a trap is making it too complicated. I would typically, if you, if you’re, if you’re starting to segment your list, I would sort out people who are cold and people who are active right up front.

You always want to know who your cold subscribers are. And probably get rid of them, um, uh, and not email to them as much. And if you are, are selling a product where you might have three or four buckets of, of people who may be interested in one product or another right out of the gate. Um, you should look for ways to identify those people and, and tag them or, or update a custom field so that you can pull a list of those people.

Um, but don’t tag everybody every time they click any link ever in your system with like a tag. It’s so true. Yeah, I don’t know what the, what the listenership in your, in your, of your podcast is like, uh, but it there’s probably somebody right now who just finished making a unique tag or link trigger for.

Like every single link in every email that they’ve ever sent, and they think that they’re going to be able to use that data somehow. Don’t do that.

Too much, too much data is just as good as, yeah, too much data is just as good as no data. Yeah. That’s like, um, I love that advice. So just be intentional, like ask yourself, like, do I really need to know this? And if I need to know it, what does it actually tell me? Preston, I swear you sound just like Jackie right now, but like in a Preston role.

That is what I was going to say, Preston. I’m not going to lie. I do want to ask you a follow up question because you had said, I get asked all the time, what do I make the segments on? And it’s like, well, what’s the goal? What’s the purpose? What do you need to know about these people in order to, You know, let’s email them.

And Melissa, I’m curious your take on, on that after speaking from like a deliverability standpoint quickly. Preston, my question for you is you said segmenting them based on if they’re cold or an engaged lead. Can you define what a cold lead is? Because to me, that might be somebody coming straight through your quiz, in which case you would want to email them right away, Good point.

Good point. So when I said cold, I mean, somebody who’s been on your list and they’re not opening your emails. So like in sales, you have cold leads. Those are people who, and I think from interact, you view, you view things almost from like a sales terminology. Sometimes like you have these leads coming in and they’re cold because you’ve never emailed them before.

When we talk about cold subscribers, we’re referring. To people who have almost been in cold storage, like they, uh, or they put themselves in cold storage is really more what it’s like you’ve been emailing them and they’re not opening your emails. They’re not clicking links. They’re not showing any sign that they’re engaged with you.

Uh, they drive your. Your open rates down and you’re paying for them because they’re on your email list, but they’re never interacting with you. That’s a, that’s a cold subscriber in, in ConvertKit technically, like we, we define a cold subscriber and there’s a pre made list that you can access in ConvertKit of all of your.

Your cold subscribers as, as an existing subscriber who has been on your list and they used to interact with you, but they haven’t interacted with you for at least 90 days and interact. When I say interact with you, I mean, they, they haven’t opened or clicked, opened any emails or clicked any links. So they, they, they, you, they’ve been on your list, but in the last 90 days, they haven’t done anything or new subscribers who, um, are at least 30 days old and have never from the very beginning interacted with any of your emails, they’ve never engaged.

So I should pick a different word than interact because yeah, yeah, the, uh, they’ve never engaged with you. So that’s how we are. Technically to find them, but to be honest, like you could kind of like decide for yourself what you feel like is, is a cold subscriber and, uh, and there are ways to kind of find them through automation and things in, in ConvertKit that might be outside of the scope of this discussion, but, but yeah, like the, uh, I had a little tidbit to drop in.

It’s like, Oh yeah. Melissa is the deliverability. Yeah. While you ask, you can define your cold subscribers in whatever way kind of like works for your business. Gmail specifically does not like you to email cold subscribers after like about 120 days. So just keep that in mind as you email your list. If people aren’t engaging with your emails and it’s been 120 days and you’re still emailing them, Gmail doesn’t like that very much and it can really hurt your, your reputation.

So. Oh, that’s so interesting. I didn’t know that. Well, I’m curious. Now that you spoke Melissa. ’cause now I wanna know . Um, and it’s one of the questions that we wanted to ask you is what does, what does email deliber, I can’t say it, it’s the worst deliverability. I know you guys, this is not deliverability, deliverability.

What does it mean? Yes. Well, in this like email marketing world, deliverability and delivery are two different things. Delivery, email delivery is whether or not the email is successfully passed from your ESP to the mailbox provider. So there’s actually like a lot that goes on when we talk about when, when an email leaves, when you press send and convert kit or your whatever ESP you use, and it is passed to the mailbox provider.

There’s so much that happens in that process, but we kind of just think like emails up here, it’s floating around in space. Base it gets delivered. Um, but there’s actually so much that goes into it. So that’s email delivery. Um, and then email deliverability is the ability of your message to reach the inbox or if it goes to the spam folder of your subscriber.

So that’s kind of getting into like the nitty gritty details of, um. You know, what happens to your email once it is successfully accepted by Gmail or Yahoo? Does it land in the promotions tab at Gmail? Does it land in the inbox? Or does it go to the spam folder? So that’s where we get into like, the really difficult conversation of what causes all of those things to happen.

Um, and it’s, It’s a very vast conversation that’s so we got, we, we need another four hours, you know, people are in the right job when they feel like they can nerd out and talk about something for like four hours. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah.

Sorry, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no, no. I was actually saying you go ahead and I interrupted you again. I was trying to be polite, but instead interrupted you like a 3rd time. You’re good. No, I was going to say, um, that we don’t really try to give too much advice on the email piece of it because we’re not going to consider ourselves expert in that.

We do get a lot of, I guess you can say it’s a question that comes up a lot where like, what do you recommend the first email should be like, what do you, what information should we add? What’s like a catchy strategy to get my people to like actually open the email and like be engaged. And I really try not to answer them as much because I think it changes case by case for every single business out there.

But it’s just, it’s interesting that you guys also sort of have that. I wouldn’t say an issue, but sort of problem, you know, problem or strategy, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. That’s like a huge part of my job is like going in and kind of auditing people’s accounts and saying like, you know, we see that you have a, of your confirmation email or your first welcome email that goes to someone.

And, and there’s a lot of texts or, you know, what is your audience like, or what are they into? What do you, want Trying to get from them, or do you want them to reply to your email? Do you want them to click in your email? Like what kinds of things need to happen initially? It’s, it is really interesting how it crosses over into deliverability, but it’s definitely like marketing strategy too.

Um, but I would say like at the very. Like if I could give everyone who’s working in this industry, like a piece of advice, it would be to really like consider what your audience wants and to not assume that, you know, what they want and to use the interactions they have or lack of interactions they have with your, um, your emails to determine like what changes you need to make.

Because the most important thing when it comes to being able to deliver. An email and like that deliverability piece too, which is obviously really important because if people aren’t getting their quiz results because the email is going to the spam folder, um, you’re gonna have a lot of problems. And so my like number one piece of advice would be to just make sure that you pay attention to those cues that your audience is giving you and to make adjustments as you need to, to make sure that you are, um.

Getting some positive interaction with your, with your audience, um, because they determine the success of your emails and whether or not they land in the spam folder, those initial inner, like those initial engagement metrics are so important, um, especially because those subscribers tend to be the most engaged initially.

That’s great advice. Is that something that. Someone would or should know before they set up a quiz. I think that it, it can be, but I also think that there’s a lot of like variability, like as your audience grows and as you see your audience change, depending on like how you, uh, you know, if you’re, if you’re pushing ads, if you’re paying for traffic, like whatever your, your setup is, I think is also a really big determination of like your.

Subscriber quality. So depending on what you have set up can be, um, kind of how you have to view like your lens of the kind of content that you initially, uh, deliver to people. So I think that that can adjust and shift based on the decisions you make in your business. But I think initially like having a strong kind of understanding of what’s going to get people to engage is really important.

I love that because we sorry, Jackie, go ahead. I’m curious because you guys were saying this like 120 days stat, right? Of if somebody is cold, they haven’t engaged in an email, then maybe remove them from your list is if you haven’t sent an email and 120 days, because I think we get this a lot a, where somebody is either Confused or torn between the idea of, do I need a sequence for each specific result, or do I just send like one follow up email and funnel them into my main newsletter?

I think there’s people like that who are analyzing for too long. They don’t do take action or they just get away from their list and they haven’t emailed in a while cause they’ve been busy with other things. What do you tell them? Like, how do you rewarm up the list or have you lost those leads at that point, because it’s more than 120 days.

Um, so not necessarily like I wouldn’t say at 120 days that you’ve totally lost, you know, those leads or those subscribers, but it is really important to consider the fact that like any, any change, whether it’s not doing anything or doing too much can impact your deliverability. So Gmail is looking at like literally down, it’s such a insane algorithm.

Like they don’t share that publicly. And I use Gmail a lot as an example, because they are like the largest slice of the pie when it comes to mailbox providers. But, like, they, they are looking at, at the smallest grain of details, including, like, how long you spend on an email, how long does a subscriber, do they, do they delete the email before they even open it?

Like, there’s all kinds of, like, tiny data points that they use to, like, determine if your mail is wanted. So anytime you are making changes, again, whether that’s positive or negative, it can impact your deliverability. You just want to be really cautious that you don’t shock them. So if you haven’t emailed your list in a long time and you have, like, a larger list, I definitely recommend sending an email.

Splitting that list up into groups and adding volume over time. As you send, if you have a really small list, it can be helpful to reach out and say like, Hey, remember me, I’m sending you an email and get them to engage initially with that email. Whether that’s like clicking, replying, replies are like the best way to improve your domain reputation.

So if you can get your audience to reply to you, it really sets you up for success. That’s good. Yeah. Yep. And the replies thing, um, that, that can be like, really, really helpful. Also, just from an automation perspective, you could like, use Zapier or something to, to log those replies and then get information.

So if you ask, for instance, a question, you’re like, Hey, you know, let me know what your greatest challenge with X, Y, Z is, then you could use a Zapier connection to like, yeah, that’s good. Sec up those replies and, and, uh, put them in a spreadsheet or something so that you can actually use that data later.

Yeah. Everything Melissa said just plus one. I love that. Thanks Preston. Anytime. Great tips. I think that this is, that’ll be very helpful for our audience to, to kind of hear that because we’re not, I don’t think that’s something that we’re like completely dabbled all the way in. So great practices. Yeah, I was going to say earlier that, uh, we used to talk a lot about like, what your first email should say, or like what, what to send when somebody, you know, gets their result.

They opt into through your quiz. You know, there the answer is always it depends. But generally, you know, it would be like, okay, yeah, you should remind them of what their result was. Um, it was. There, yeah, it always varied based off of like what to do at the end or like after you give them the result. What would you guys say in terms of deliverability would be a best practice so that somebody does engage with that first email?

I think oftentimes it’s, it’s some kind of actions. Um, it could be like a click, like click here to get more information about, you know, this results. It could be. Like I said, a reply, there’s so many creative ways. I actually just talked with someone recently on a call who was like, I’m going to sit at my computer for an hour.

I don’t remember exactly what her business was, but she was some kind of a consultant and she’s like, I’m going to sit at my computer for an hour. And I’m going to send an email to my list and be like, I’m here for the next hour. I can answer any questions you have about this to get replies from her audience.

And I was like, Oh, I’m going to use that. That’s amazing. I might use that too. Yeah. It’s so good. Yeah. It’s, it’s like, You know, if you have obviously, and again, the number one, like response and deliverability is it depends because everyone has such a unique setup. Everyone has like a different audience.

What works for someone who’s in investments won’t work for someone who’s like a mom blogger. It’s just obviously so dependent on your audience, your content, all of those things. But I think trying to get someone to trust you as a sender, like we always say in deliverability that. Like that email address is attached to a real person on the other side.

And so using that, like human connection to say, like, I see you as a person, not just an email address, like gaining that trust from your audience. Like that’s really like one of the most important things to set yourself up for success as you continue to grow and send more emails to that person. Maybe down the road, there’s an ask, maybe you’re, there’s a sale.

So being able to like set that foundation of the relationship early on is really important. Can I just add, I know we’re almost done. The top of the time, but, uh, this whole, this whole concept of like brand loyalty is so, so big because once you’ve gotten that person’s trust and loyalty, like they’re there it’s honed in.

Right. And it just, it reminds me even myself, like everybody I’ve talked about it numerous times in this podcast of like. My candle addiction, I go to the same store, my Starbucks coffee. I’ve gone to Starbucks for this. Like, it’s always been the same brands. Right. And it’s, it’s sort of, it’s like almost subconscious thing.

Like you’ve, I’m already sold. Like it’s already there. So there’s really not, once you get to that level, there’s really not much. It’s really hard to change somebody’s opinion or. Loyalty, right? So it’s so it’s crazy that these kind of things sort of tie into brand loyalty. For sure. Well, we might need to have you guys on like 10 more episodes so we could get through all the hours of all our tips because they need to know more.

Next, next time, uh, I’ll pull out all the stops. We’ll, we’ll talk about all the nitty gritty nerdy, uh, Nerdy things and people can fall asleep listening, listening to me. Talk about, talk about things I will say, uh, just real quick though, that answer, it depends pretty much applies to like most things in email marketing.

Cause people will ask me, they’re like, what are the best practices for like setting up email marketing? Funnels and I’m like funnels for what, like, you know, like there’s a, yeah. What are we finally funneling? Um, I think that people want like a quick, a quick answer, but like Melissa said, uh, there are real people on the other side of the emails, you know?

And because there are real people, uh, you really have to. Well, you have to, for lack of a better phrase, you have to interact with them. You have to ask them questions, um, and, and find out what they want and what they need. And so there’s really not a lot of the time, a one size fits all kind of solution.

There are some, some best practices across the board, but, but like, it really does depend. Well, Preston and Melissa, thank you so much for joining us and issuing out all your secrets for our listeners to hear. We will link that template in the show notes, but it sounds like you guys work really closely with customers.

Where can people sort of get access to that if they’re like, Oh my gosh, I need to talk to ConvertKit about my emails, my, my quiz and my emails and all that. Has any questions they can email Nathan directly.

Uh, uh, yeah. If, if you’re a ConvertKit customer can, um, you can email help at ConvertKit. com. If you have questions, I’m going to put this out here and maybe. Don’t put it in the show notes, but yeah, if you can put this at the beginning, if you want Preston’s email, wait until the end. No, my, my, if you have questions about specifically about like automations and things, um, you can email me at Preston at convert kit, convert kit.

com. Uh, we’re very creative with our email addresses here. So just first name at convert kit. com. Uh, and I’m happy to. To help out any way that I can, I was going to say it’s the same for me, but don’t email me questions that are about automations because I’m not the right person to help with that. But if you have deliverability questions, um, please feel free to reach out to Melissa at convert kit.com. Awesome. Thank you so much. And thank you for joining us for listening and we’ll see you next time. Thank you all. Awesome. Thank you guys.

Make Your Own Quiz For Free