You’ll typically find our guest today with a cup of coffee in her hand because #momlife. But once that coffee kicks in, Emily McGuire is taking names (or emails) as the founder and Chief Email Marketer behind Flourish & Grit!
Flourish & Grit is an email marketing agency that builds and retains customer relationships at scale. Founded in 2018, Emily grew Flourish & Grit from a solo shop to a confidently curated team of marketers who are passionate about the impacts of email marketing.
With lessons learned from over a decade in tech, sending thousands of email campaigns, and earning clients over $80 million in email campaign revenue (wow!), Emily is sharing what led her to where she is today on our Creator Stories podcast.
Emily’s website: https://www.flourishgrit.com/
Jessmyn:
Welcome to Interact’s Creator Stories Podcast. Interact is the easiest way to convert curious people into loyal and happy customers by using a lead-generating quiz. On Creator Stories, we get to hear the entrepreneur’s journey. This is a podcast about how those creators took their knowledge and experiences to carve out a place in the world, owned what they know is special about themselves, and turned it into a successful company. Today, we get to speak with Emily McGuire, who is the founder of Flourish & Grit, an email marketing agency that builds and retains customer relationships at scale. All right, let’s get started.
Hi, guys, and welcome back to Interact’s Creator Stories Podcast. So excited to be with you as always. I’m your host, Jessmyn Solana, and with me today, I do have the amazing Emily McGuire. Emily, thank you so much for joining us today on our show.
Emily:
Thanks for having me.
Jessmyn:
Of course, and everybody got your more formal bio, but could you go into a little bit more detail? Tell us more about you, your business, and then take us back to the beginning and tell us how you got started in all of this.
Emily:
Yeah. I live in Michigan, in Ann Arbor, with my husband and my four-year-old, and I live a very exciting life. I rarely leave the house, so I’m very cool. [inaudible 00:01:41] oh yeah. No, but I work from home. I’ve been working from home for the past four or five years.
Jessmyn:
Oh, wow.
Emily:
Yeah, so not to brag, but I was kind of a pro when this whole thing started. I was working remotely, and then started freelancing as an email marketer, so yeah, I’m an email marketer, and I own a small email marketing agency now, but about three years ago, my husband and I moved back to Michigan. We were in North Carolina before, after I gave birth, to be near family, and when we moved back, I was looking for a job, only doing email marketing, because I’ve done the generalist thing before, and wasn’t finding the perfect fit.
I’d gotten to that point in my career where I was like, “I’m not compromising anymore,” you know? Most of the jobs I was finding were either they wanted somebody to do everything for nothing, or they had like an hour commute each way, so I was like, “You know what? I’m just going to create my own job. That’s not hard, right?”
So I went in with it with just the right amount of ignorance, and started just trying to freelance at first, and then things sort of took off. Now I’ve got a very small team, but we’re an agency, so we do execution and a little bit of consulting, or not a little bit. We do execution and a lot a bit of consulting. So yeah, it’s been three years of, I call entrepreneurship. It’s very similar to parenting, a lot of high highs, a lot of low lows, so it’s just trying to ride those waves and not totally-
Jessmyn:
I love that.
Emily:
… lose your mind.
Jessmyn:
I love that. I love that, and I kind of actually really like how you pointed out sort of going into it with a little bit of ignorance, because… I guess I’ll ask this question. Do you feel, had you done research, saw that all the things that you need to put into it, that you would have been like, “Eh, nevermind”?
Emily:
Yeah, no. I didn’t, and I think for me, because I am service-based, you don’t really have the typical kind of overhead, right? If you were doing a physical product, or wanted to launch very polished. I was just trying to figure it out as I went along, and yeah, if I had done research and thought about the startup costs of having a polished brand, and the right kind of web presence, and advertising, blah blah blah, I would have been like no, mm-mm (negative). But I’ve always been a really self-driven person, so I thought it was like, “Okay, well it’s just going to be more of that, just me figuring stuff out.” Essentially, that has been what it is, but it’s a totally different skillset, and mindset.
Jessmyn:
Right, right, because you have to… I mean, not only are you just doing the actual work of said job. You also have to do the job of entrepreneur, and if you do have a team, like you do now, you also have to be a leader, and there’s a lot of different parts that go into it.
Emily:
Exactly, yeah. It’s just, it’s wearing a million hats in a different… Because I’ve worked for very small businesses and have had to do that, but yeah, it’s just a whole new intensity, and like it’s your business on the line. It’s your income on the line, so the risk is just so much higher, and the stakes feel so much higher, so there’s a lot of pressure. So yeah, again, it’s like trying not to lose your mind.
Jessmyn:
Right, right.
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
But you’ve been doing it for three years now, so you were able to actually stick through it and start to build something. For those who are listening, who hopefully aren’t scared of the sort of high risk, high pressure, I guess like after three years now, what are some of the things that I guess worked really well, that you were able to overcome some of those challenges, anything like that?
Emily:
Yeah. I think the hardest is finding out your market position, which is something I’m still trying to figure out, because some people will tell me, “Oh, you do email marketing? That’s so niche. Like, how… That’s so cool you do something so specific.” But even in the world of email, it’s huge, right? Like, you can specialize in industries, or certain type of end users, and there are very specific parts of email or CRM work that can be broken out too, so yeah, figuring out who you serve, and exactly how, is still a work in progress.
But, I think I made it, and I keep thinking like, “Oh, I should have gotten to this sooner. I should know this by now,” but I think it’s still such a finding process, that figuring out… Well, getting burned a few times, right? Figuring out like that’s what I definitely don’t want to do again. Like, sometimes the best lessons are the hardest ones. And also figuring out, well, if that’s not what I want, what do I want, and how do I find it?
Yeah, it’s really a test of resilience, and it can be really isolating at times too, because… I mean, you’re the one making the decisions. It ends with you, so you get too… I mean, decision fatigue’s a thing, so like you get so in your head, it gets really isolating sometimes. I’ve found some really great groups of peers, who are in the same boat as me, and when I’ve… The hard part has been when I’ve started to outgrow those peers, and knowing I want to go to a different level, is then being okay with maybe letting go of that other group a little bit, and finding people who are heading in the direction I want to. So getting that support too is just crucial.
Jessmyn:
I love that. I think that’s been such a big topic, at least for me in a lot of the conversations I’ve been having lately, is having that community and that support from your peers, who are people like you, but what I find really interesting about your situation is calling out this sort of, “What happens when I outgrow that?” And finding that next community that’s at the same level. I love that a lot. How, I guess, do you make that distinction of, “Okay, this is no longer serving me, even though I love the people in here, I love the group itself, but I do need to move on and move forward”?
Emily:
Yeah. I mean, it’s hard, right? Because having really solid support is such a big deal, so you feel so grateful for the people who have given you their time and their energy to lift you up. But, we’re always changing, so we’re doing this in so many different ways, even if it’s not in business. Once you realize… I think for me, once I realized that like, “Oh, this is not the direction I want to go in,” right? Like, “I want to go in a different direction,” and sort of separating that idea from any sort of judgment about what it means about the people who have been supporting you. That doesn’t mean that they’re, whatever, less motivated, or less of anything, right? It just means that I’m in a different place, right? And it’s okay for me to go find support that will help move me in the direction I want to go.
But that takes a lot of processing. Again, more mental work, more… I mean, taking responsibility for my success, and switching from an employee mentality, from that which is if I want to progress in the way I want to progress, I’ve got to wait for the right people to notice, and take me along that path, to an entrepreneurial mindset, which is I have to go out and seek the path I want to go down.
Jessmyn:
Oh, I love that.
Emily:
Yeah, it’s a weird, very weird mind shift, and hard to get to.
Jessmyn:
Yeah, that’s actually really interesting to sort of think about, especially if you start out sort of in the corporate world of business, and… I mean, I never thought of it that way until you just said it right now. It is such a different mindset, and I guess my question from that is, for people who are listening, if maybe they’re still pretty new at this, maybe they’re still in that phase of their business is more of their side hustle until it starts to grow, how do you make that shift from employee to entrepreneur?
Emily:
Yeah. I mean, you have to be… For me, it was… I remember for me, when I was trying to get things started, or like, I was ready to start putting myself out there, right? Really starting to let people know what I want to do, or what I’m doing, and who I want to work with, and all that kind of stuff, I was really… I wanted to get active on LinkedIn, because that’s where my audience is, and I had all of these connections from my past, of people who maybe I worked with briefly, or they just worked at the same company I did, but I never met them, you know?
And my most recent, especially my current coworkers and colleagues, because I started freelancing for the last company I worked for, and I was really anxious about promoting my business, because to me, it felt like I was being disloyal to the folks who had really helped me cut my teeth on email, or really mentored me. Eventually, I had to get to a point where I had to be okay with them knowing, you know? It’s not like… I mean, A, I was a freelancer, so there’s nothing they could really do, but B, like working for the right kind of company, a lot of companies don’t care, right? They just do not care, and I think I cared more than anybody else would, and if people want to…
And my main thing, and this is the thing about those hidden beliefs, like subconscious beliefs that you don’t really become aware of until you’re trying to push through them, is they would think like, “Who is this lady, trying to start a business? Who does she think she is?” You know what I’m saying? I had that weird script going in my head, so it was really just looking at all of the mental roadblocks I was putting in my way, and really taking them out and looking at them, to say, “Okay, what do I think… What’s the worst thing that’s going to happen here?”
And realizing the chances of that are so slim, and I am the one who has to take care of this business now. If I want this, if I want myself to succeed, if I want this business to succeed, I can’t be worrying about random people thinking that I’m, what, weird for wanting to start a business? Like, it just gets so… Yeah, as you keep unpacking all that stuff, you’re like, “Wait, what? Why am I doing it? Why do I not want to do this?” You know? It’s bananas, so really for me, it’s been a lot of wanting to do something, finding myself holding myself back, and then start to take out those ideas and look at them.
And really, a lot of that stuff, I’ve done. I’ve taken just like a bunch of programs, to figure out a specific skillset, and those programs, you start talking to people who all have shared the same experience, all have had the same kind of thoughts, and you’re like, “Oh, this is the shift,” right? Like, “This is the shift I’m trying to make.” Again, it’s a lot of mental work, and finding the people who are heading in the direction you want to, to help you start examining your beliefs.
Jessmyn:
I love that. I think a lot of what I heard was sort of a bit of self-awareness, in… It’s so interesting how much negative self-talk we give ourself.
Emily:
It is. It is, right?
Jessmyn:
But just like being aware of that, and I love how you used the words like unpacking, taking a look at it, and really wondering why. “Why do I think that way? Why am I thinking that way? Why am I worried about random people?” Because at the end of the day, you might never cross paths with anyone who even thinks anything about that anyway.
Emily:
Right.
Jessmyn:
You know?
Emily:
Exactly. Exactly, yeah. Most people do not care as much as I do, you know?
Jessmyn:
Right. Right.
Emily:
Yeah. They don’t care.
Jessmyn:
Yeah. It’s so funny, because I actually went through something similar myself. I’m starting a self-care podcast on the side of Interact, and the very first thing that came to mind was, “I don’t want to tell anyone what my plans are, what it’s going to be. I’m not even telling them this is happening. I’m just going to launch it.” It still is in progress. I have announced it to some people eventually, after I’d kind of got the whole plan of what I wanted it to look like, but it was so crazy to me that I was like, “There’s so many people that I do want to tell, because I’m so excited, but I’m so afraid of the opinions that are going to come out of it, of the advice that I don’t want or need that will come out of it, and the criticism on top of that.”
I think it’s really interesting to kind of hear how that is such a big thing for a lot of entrepreneurs, or a lot of people who are trying to start their own thing, because we have been so ingrained in this sort of culture of needing to listen to people, getting their feedback, and needing to hear the construction criticism, but sometimes, at the end of the day, it’s more about finding your market, and finding the people who think the same way that you do, kind of like exactly what you were saying, so I love that. I think that’s great.
Emily:
Yeah. Yeah, and it’s… Man, I saw a LinkedIn post the other day. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. Again, like-
Jessmyn:
I love it.
Emily:
… I am very cool. I am very cool. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. But somebody was talking about, you know, they worked at a company where they were giving… Every time they gave a presentation, all they got were negative notes back.
Jessmyn:
Wow.
Emily:
Yeah, and they went… They ended up switching companies, and they did a presentation at their new company, and she got like amazing… People were so excited about what they shared, presentation skills, blah blah blah. And she ended it something with like, “If people make it clear they don’t want you in the room, get the hell out of the room.”
Jessmyn:
Ooh, I love that.
Emily:
Yeah, and I was like, “Yes, that’s exactly it,” because I know for me, my default is when people think that they don’t like something I did or whatever it is, I immediately internalize it and say, “Well, yeah. They’re right. I’m wrong. I need to fix this. Let me figure out,” when that’s not the case, right? It’s just an opinion, and that is such a hard thing to-
Jessmyn:
So hard to work past.
Emily:
Exactly, to, again, take a step back and say, “Wait a second. Am I really at fault here, or is there something I really need to do, or do they just need to keep their opinions to themselves,” you know?
Jessmyn:
Right. Right, right. I think what comes to mind from this is sort of you entered in an industry that, like you said, sounds really niche, but it’s not. Like, email marketing is… There’s so many different forms. There’s different ways you can work within that industry. So kind of moving into that space with these internalizing thoughts of, “Okay, I need to get past this. I’m not really sure what I’m doing,” a lot of negative self-talk. But how do you work past that in going into an industry that does… There’s a lot going on in there, a lot of people in there, different forms of even like… I guess what I’m trying to say is a lot of different voices, right?
Emily:
Yes.
Jessmyn:
With email, there’s a lot of different voices. It could be that sort of software tech corporate voice. It could be that best friend next door voice. It could be very short and concise or, “Let me tell you a super long story.” Anyway, point of what I’m trying to ask is how do you… Going into an industry like that, how do you really move past some of those hard thoughts, imposter syndrome, and so on?
Emily:
Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing is the more I do this on my own, and the more I get into other people’s email programs, the more I realize most people don’t know what they’re doing. I mean, and you could say that about anything, right? Like, we’re all just making it up as we go along.
Jessmyn:
We are, yeah.
Emily:
And there’s some comfort and terror in that at the same time. But I think that part of that is like you go… Going and helping somebody who’s asking for help, and seeing maybe the previous help they got or what they’ve tried to do on their own, it’s like, “Oh boy, yeah.” And you don’t even realize… It’s so weird. You don’t even realize you are a quote… I’m going to use air quotes on “expert,” even though I do know more than most, so still working on that. You realize like, “Oh, I do know what I’m doing,” you know? Because I can not only go in and see how to fix things, but also how to improve things, and I can lean on past experience, and talk about this stuff very easily. Like, it’s not difficult to talk about it when somebody has a question. Again, that’s just been practice. It’s been a lot of practice.
The other thing I did is, I think early on, I ended up doing Marie Forleo’s B-School, at the beginning of all this stuff. The main takeaway I got from that, which has actually been one of the best things, is I ended up taking the StrengthsFinder, the Gallup StrengthsFinder assessment, and one of the exercises she had you do was email… or contact 20 people you know and ask them what they think your top three strengths are.
Jessmyn:
Ooh.
Emily:
Yeah, and I did it, and the feedback I got was… One of the things was people enjoy being around me.
Jessmyn:
Oh, I love that.
Emily:
I’m like whispering this. People enjoy [crosstalk 00:24:11] And I was-
Jessmyn:
Don’t tell anyone.
Emily:
Right, yeah. I was like, “Wait, what? People like me? Are you kidding?” Like, it was so… It was such a weird realization, that like, “Oh my god, people enjoy spending time with me.” Again, another negative belief I didn’t know I had, but the more I questioned myself, the more I thought about that. Like, “Oh, people said that’s one of my top strengths,” so that helped me sort of lean into being me, you know? Like, people enjoy me, so I should let other people see that, and that has led me to use my own voice in all of my copy, just really embracing it. The more I embrace who I am in my dorkiness, the more I get great feedback from people. They’re like, “I love your voice. I love your brand, and so fun to work with,” and blah blah blah. It’s so strange. So strange.
Jessmyn:
That’s amazing.
Emily:
Yeah, like, “Wait, if I just chill out a little bit and be who I am, people like it? They like somebody being human? What?” It’s, again, so weird, and still something I’m trying to… I’m still trying to let myself do and see.
Jessmyn:
Right. That is a great practice, though, because I feel like… I mean, like we were talking about, like negative self-talk is pretty huge, and I feel like going into entrepreneurship, starting your own business, and even if you’ve already started and you’re in the middle of growing, there is a lot of mental work, a lot of, like you said, isolation, and there’s a lot of self-doubt that happens, but if you were to do something of that same sort, of like asking people, “What are my top three strengths?” I think what’s great about it is it validates you and it validates your work, and when you do… I think it’s a booster in the moment, but even if down the line, you’re like, “Oh, I’m getting down into a darker space,” you could always look back at that and be like, “It’s okay. I’m just feeling feelings right now.”
Emily:
Right, exactly.
Jessmyn:
“This is temporary. It’s not real.”
Emily:
Right. Yeah. Well, and the idea behind all that too was, we focus so much on trying to overcome our weaknesses, to try and fix them. Like, what would happen if you just doubled down on your strengths?
Jessmyn:
Love that.
Emily:
Like, you already… It’s way less energy, right?
Jessmyn:
Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah, and just because it’s not hard work, or not hard work for you to lean into your strengths, doesn’t mean it’s not valuable, right? That’s the hardest thing too, is knowing that, knowing what your strengths are and that they are unique to you, and we never notice them, because we are just living them, right? It’s just normal day-to-day stuff, so yeah.
Jessmyn:
That’s a great practice. I love that. I think that’s also super new. Like, I haven’t heard of that advice before, so I would like to challenge everyone listening to actually go try it, and tell us how it goes, because I think I might do it myself.
Emily:
Yeah, well and that-
Jessmyn:
I love that a lot.
Emily:
Yeah, the StrengthsFinder thing, you can get your top five strengths or get like a whole assessment, and even that, like I took that and it listed out my top five strengths, and I was like, “Oh my god. This is me to a T, and wow, this is valuable? These are things that people… or that I can use, or use to differentiate myself essentially?” Yeah, it was just like, “Oh my god, I’ve never thought of it this way.”
Jessmyn:
Right, right. I actually did… I don’t know if it’s the same. The one that I took was called Clifton Strengths.
Emily:
I think that’s the same thing.
Jessmyn:
Yeah, it’s probably… It sounds really similar, but I will say for me, it was a game-changer, because my number one was positivity, and-
Emily:
Oh, cool.
Jessmyn:
… it was so funny, because I was like, “I know I’m a positive person, but I do still have…” I mean, I’m human, so there’s still a lot of negative self-talk. I’m always like, “Oh my gosh, did I just embarrass myself?” Things like that. But knowing things like that really helped me sort of, like you said, lean into it. It gave me a little bit more confidence in, “Oh, this is something I’m naturally good at, so let me sort of build on that versus trying to build on something that I’m not as good at and I know doesn’t come to me as naturally.”
Emily:
Exactly, yeah. And that’s another like… Something like that is such a, whatever, quote-unquote “soft skill,” that is so underestimated, because again, the more I do this entrepreneurial stuff, and the vast amount of people I meet and work with, the value of making people feel good around you cannot be quantified, but it is so powerful to just have people who… You know, they light up when you’re talking to them, and leaving that kind of good feeling with them, people are going to want to keep being around you. However that translates into any sort of progress in your life, like you can’t buy that stuff. You can’t buy it.
Jessmyn:
Right.
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
Would you say too, that also helps you in situations where you work with a client, and you guys just aren’t really clicking, where you’re like, “You know, I know this is one of my strengths. I think this just isn’t the right fit,” and it sort of helps you, rather than trying to make it work, does it help you in a sense?
Emily:
I mean, you would hope, you would think it would, but I mean, I’m learning to trust my gut on that stuff, but I’m somebody who’s like, “I can fix it. I can make it work,” you know? Like, “If I just work hard enough, it’ll be fine,” and the more I listen to my gut, and listen to the red flags, the more I’m like, “You don’t have to fix it,” you know? “That is not your job, and just like, you’re going to make everybody’s life miserable by continuing down this relationship, because,” right? You’re going to get resentful. That’s going to bleed into a bunch of work you’re doing for that person, and it’s just not worth it.
Jessmyn:
I feel that. I feel that.
Emily:
Yeah, a work in progress.
Jessmyn:
I mean, it always is, right?
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
It always is. I’m the same way. I’m like… You know, I’m always working on that.
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
Question for you. You started out in email marketing. Was there ever a point where you were like, “I want to go into something different, or I need sort of a change”?
Emily:
Well, so email marketing was my change. I got-
Jessmyn:
Ah.
Emily:
Yeah, so to make a long story short… Well, it’s going to be a little long, but that’s fine. I graduated college in 2009, at the height of the recession, and there were no jobs, so I felt very lucky to find a job as a receptionist, and eventually, I was like, “I can’t do this. My brain is melting.” So I went to grad school, because I thought I wanted to be an academic. And then I went to grad school and was like, “No, this is the same kind of corporate stuff, just with a different package,” so I was like, “I’ll do social media. I like internet, and I like people. Let’s so social media.”
So I got a job doing social media for this brand, and they were like, “Oh, you do internet things. You can do email too, right?” I was like, “Sure, why not?” And realized I like email so much more than social media. That social media hamster wheel is so exhausting. You know, bless all those social media managers out there. It’s so hard.
So yeah, I mean, and I found my place in email because it’s such a wide world, and for me, I really enjoyed the data piece and the strategic piece, but now, as an entrepreneur, it’s like, “Well, I can do anything,” which is kind of dangerous, because you’re like, “Well, I want to do that, and I want to do that, and I want to do that,” but no. I mean, in terms of professions, since I started doing email, I’ve never wanted to do anything else. Like-
Jessmyn:
Oh, I love that.
Emily:
Yeah. It’s fun, and especially working on my own now, I get to create so many fun things, that people are excited about. They’re like, “Oh, you can do that?” And I’m like, “Yeah you can. Watch.” You know? So yeah, there’s just so much flexibility, and it checks so many boxes. Eventually, my dream is to write a novel, but-
Jessmyn:
Ooh.
Emily:
… that’s not really in the cards with a young kid at home right now, so we’ll get there.
Jessmyn:
I feel that. I feel that. Oh, but I love that though. I feel like this is one of the first times I think I’ve heard that. I mean, I’m sure it happens more often than I think, but like in my experience, at least talking to people, it always started somewhere else, and there was this sort of, I guess pathway to ending up in that space that they’re in, and I kind of love that, like just kind of knowing, “This is it.”
Emily:
Yeah. Yeah. I have a lot of fun. My only concern is what will eventually replace email. But, I think that we’re a ways off of… Yeah, that’s still a ways away, and by then, I’ll probably have transitioned into something similar, right?
Jessmyn:
Or hopefully, we’ll all be retired by then, living on the beach.
Emily:
Yeah, there you go. Yep. Writing my novel. You know, no big.
Jessmyn:
Exactly. Exactly. Nice. Well, I have two last questions to close out with if you’re up for it.
Emily:
Yeah, absolutely.
Jessmyn:
Awesome. Second to last question for you is what are three things most people wouldn’t know about you?
Emily:
Most people wouldn’t know that I write poetry.
Jessmyn:
Ooh.
Emily:
I’m an amateur poet, yes, and I even started an Instagram for it, like-
Jessmyn:
Oh, I love that.
Emily:
… recently. Yeah, just to get over the nerves of sharing it. I was like, “You know what? I’m going to put this out in the world so I’ll get comfortable sharing it.”
Jessmyn:
What’s your Instagram handle for your poetry?
Emily:
Oh boy.
Jessmyn:
If you’re comfortable sharing it. I put you on the spot. I’m sorry.
Emily:
You know what? I’m going all out. It’s EmilyMcWriter.
Jessmyn:
Ooh, I love that.
Emily:
Yeah, because it rhymes with McGuire.
Jessmyn:
That’s very clever. I love it.
Emily:
Thank you. So yeah, I write poetry. Another thing is, I used to play roller derby. A lot of people don’t know that.
Jessmyn:
Wow.
Emily:
Yeah, I did that until I got pregnant, and then I tried to go back to it after I had my son, and I was like, “No, I cannot do [inaudible 00:37:05].” Yeah, it’s so scary. I know so many people who got hurt. Then the third thing is I’ve taught public speaking, I think [crosstalk 00:37:23]
Jessmyn:
Ooh.
Emily:
… third thing. Yeah, yeah. I taught public speaking in grad school, to college freshmen, which was a whole other experience.
Jessmyn:
Oh man. I’m trying to think back to when I took that class freshman year, and I was like, “This is hard.”
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
I actually really like public speaking, but I never realized there was sort of an art form to it.
Emily:
Yeah. Yeah. Some people are so good at it. But yeah, another skillset to learn and master.
Jessmyn:
Right. I love it. I love it. Last question for you, if you could give yourself a single piece of advice at the start of it all, what would it be?
Emily:
I think learn to trust yourself.
Jessmyn:
Ooh.
Emily:
There’s a lot of… And I think this is very common for women, in that we’re taught to seek external validation for things, and we’re not really encouraged or nurtured to trust ourselves, and our intuition, or our gut, or whatever it is you want to call it. And I say that because I wasted a lot of money as an entrepreneur, seeking out external guidance and help. And some of it was very worth it, but like I’m talking about some coaching stuff. There are a lot of coaches out there who essentially sell external validation, and it’s not…
Yeah, like anything, there are a lot of bad coaches out there and there are a lot of great ones, but I think if I had let myself trust the process, and be okay with failing, right? Because that is part of the process, and not blaming myself for making mistakes, I would have saved myself a lot of money. But I mean, seriously, it’s just… And that’s such a hard skill to build, because I was not raised to trust myself, so I think if I had taken that to heart a lot more earlier on, I could have saved myself a lot of heartbreak and beating myself up about things, you know?
Jessmyn:
I think that’s incredible though. I love that.
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
I love it.
Emily:
Yeah. Again, still a work in progress, but we all are.
Jessmyn:
I love it though, because I think too, it’s like you can’t expect to always reach sort of that perfect level of perfection, I… I don’t really know what to call it, but for a lack of better word, I guess like perfection. Like, you always will need some sort of a work in progress, and not to say it as a negative thing or a bad thing, but there’s always space for living a happier, healthier life.
Emily:
Exactly. Exactly, and every… You know, like mistakes are okay to make too, you know? It’s okay to make a mistake. You pick yourself back up, brush yourself off, and keep going, because yeah, I am not unique for messing up, you know?
Jessmyn:
Yeah.
Emily:
I’m not some sort of special case for making a mistake. Like, no, it’s fine. I just keep going.
Jessmyn:
I love it.
Emily:
Yeah.
Jessmyn:
I love it. Well, Emily, thank you so much for being on with us today. Can you please let everyone know where to find you online?
Emily:
Yeah. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before, but I’m on LinkedIn, so you can find me there. You can also check out my website, flourishgrit.com.
Jessmyn:
Love it, and we will link all of those for you guys in the show notes, so check it out, and we will see you next time. Bye.
Emily:
Thank you. Bye.