Jaclyn Mellone is a coach, Keynote speaker, mama, guac lover, and the founder of Go-To Gal Media. Oh, and she’s also the host of the Go-To Gal podcast, named one of Forbes Top 21 Podcasts for 2021 and a top 200 Marketing podcast on iTunes!
Jaclyn has proudly built the Go-To Gal empire in her slippers from her living room in Rochester, NY. She has spoken at marketing conferences around the US, grown her social media channels to total over 50K followers and has been featured in Entrepreneur, Yahoo Finance, Reader’s Digest, Parents, Well + Good, and on dozens of podcasts and radio appearances.
She’s on a mission to help experts exponentially grow their business by becoming the Go-To Authority in their space by getting out of their own way. If you’re ready to overcome self-doubt and stand out from the crowd, Jaclyn is your go-to gal on this episode of Creator Stories.
Jaclyn’s website: jaclynmellone.com
Jessmyn Solana:
Welcome to Interact’s Creator Stories Podcast. Interact is the easiest way to convert curious people into loyal and happy customers by using a lead generating quiz. On Creator Stories, we get to hear the entrepreneur’s journey. This is a podcast about how those creators took their knowledge and experiences to carve out a place in the world. Owned what they know is special about themselves and turned it into a successful company. Today, we’re hearing from Jaclyn Mellone, who is the founder of Go-to Gal media, an online business coach and host of the Go-to Gal Podcast. She’s been named one of Forbes, top 21 podcast for 2021 and is a top 200 marketing podcast on iTunes. The podcast covers topics ranging from mindset, business strategy, to the latest marketing tactics.
All right, let’s get started. Hi guys and welcome back to Interact’s Creator Stories Podcast. As you all know, I’m your host, Jessmyn Solana and with me today, I have Jaclyn Mellone. Jaclyn, thank you so much for hopping on our show with us today.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Thank you so much for having me.
Jessmyn Solana:
Of course, of course, and if you guys don’t know Jaclyn, she actually is an online business coach and she’s the host of her own podcast Go-to Gal podcast. So go check it out after this though. Don’t pause my show. I’m just kidding. Anyway, we’re so excited to have you Jaclyn and I’m really excited to kind of get going because there’s a lot going on in your business and you have like a lot of different avenues. So first and foremost, tell us a little bit more about you and your business, and then take us back to the beginning, how did you get started in all of this?
Jaclyn Mellone:
Sure. So hello, as you said, I’m Jaclyn Mellone, host of the Go-to gal podcast and I live in upstate New York with my husband. I got two kids, I say fur baby but he’s more like a fur old man. He’s 10, my coworker, my fluffy coworker. We’ll get into the whole story but essentially with my business, with Go-to gal media, we have me, as a business coach where I work with clients one on one or in a small group settings. I’ve also found that I guess in my own story, which we’ll get into, podcasting has been such a pivotal powerful part of my journey that a lot of my clients in community are like, “Well, how can we build a podcast like you have or how can we get on podcasts like the ones that we’re listening to you on?” So I also have a podcasting course called Pays to Podcast that I partner with Farnoosh Torabi.
We built that together, she’s hosted the So Money podcast. Then, I also have a program where … for Help You Pitch podcast, to be a guest is another way to leverage the platform. Maybe if you’re not ready to be a podcaster or also if you have a podcast, it’s one of the best ways to grow your podcast, is being a guest on other people’s podcasts. So yes, we have a lot going on but all exciting things and they all fit together with that common goal of helping you become that go-to gal, like go-to authority in your space.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that. I love that because it also just kind of … I don’t know, it’s like we all want to be an expert in our field and not that we aren’t, but we also want to be the expert, right, like I want to be the person that you think of out of the kind of ocean of people that do what I do.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Exactly. Exactly and that’s where it’s been this funny thing with my own brand and that some of it was a little bit broader, right? So me, having podcasting as kind of my go-to gal status, but that feeds clients landing on my lap and programs that kind of fit within all of that too. So yes, getting known as that go-to person is essential. Everyone says like, “Oh, it’s so crowded out there,” but if you take the time to really build that clear brand, and I guess as we’re kicking it off, I’ll go into to my background story but when I say go-to gal or go-to authority, it’s not just about being an expert in what you do. The authority part is being the expert, inherently, is in there but it’s also being seen as that expert, right?
Having other people view you as that. At the same point in time, the go-to is just as important. I’m like my hands all over the place, but the go-to is just as important because that piece of it is the relationship, that you’re the go-to for somebody because just being an expert, isn’t enough. Just being known as the authority isn’t enough. Someone needs to see that one, they have that relationship with you, whether it’s two ways or they’re following your content and feeling that connection with you, and they need to know that your expertise applies to them, right? In this day and age, we don’t just want someone who, I don’t know, is an Instagram expert. We want someone that’s either going to be like, they’re going to teach us reals or they’re an Instagram expert for photographers, right?
We want that specificity because specificity builds trust. So, yeah, that’s the two pieces of the Go-to gal, Go-to Authority puzzle.
Jessmyn Solana:
It’s great the way you describe it and I’m sure that’s sort of like your whole business too, is like this is exactly what it is. I love of that because you’re right, like we … I mean, especially in this day and age, there’s so many different ways you can do things and it changes all the time. I know, especially with social media, it’s like, “Oh, the algorithm, we decided to switch it up this week.” So you want to have that go-to person that is keeping up with it, can actually teach you how to use it and so forth.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Exactly. Exactly.
Jessmyn Solana:
So take us back, how did you start out? Where is the beginning?
Jaclyn Mellone:
My gosh, there’s so many beginnings. I’m like, where do I narrow this down? So my first online business was back my senior year of college in 2005. I won’t take you all the way from, because that will be here forever, but I wanted to start a business for the longest time and that was the first online business, it was before Amazon started doing textbooks where you could buy books online, and it was a website for college students to sell each other books. So, could have been the first and the next or the first Amazon, but somehow that didn’t end up happening, but that’s okay. I say I spent a solid decade being a wantrepreneur and really, I had ideas. Sometimes we got to … that was probably the furthest with that first company in 2005.
After that, ideas, logos, but nothing really passed that, right? I always wanted to build that business, but I just … I don’t know, I was actually surrounded by a lot of very successful entrepreneurial people, but they were taking out really big loans for hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars to build these businesses, leasing property buying property and it just seems like this big step. So, when I started listening to podcasts, that’s really what opened up a whole new world for me or I was able to actually hear people’s stories and see how they were making money, how this was happening, how they got started. I literally felt like a whole new world opened up to me. So podcasting was the first, but I always thought I needed to have this big audience first. So I was like, “Okay, I’m going to start a podcast, but not until I grow this big audience.”
So I started my business in the summer of 2015. I’m using the word business very liberally because it was really just … for it to be a business, I feel like you need to have like a way to make money or even like something you’re selling and in the beginning, I didn’t have that. I just started with an Instagram account. I was all about building an audience and building community first to figure out what they wanted. How could I take my expertise, my background, my expertise is in marketing. So how could I take that and help this community? So I started building an Instagram, which got a lot of traction. I went from zero to a thousand followers in the first month, which isn’t like crazy numbers, but it’s enough to get attention, right? It’s enough for people to be like, “How did you do that,” right?
Start building relationships and get that first thousand followers that’s engaged and start to get some feedback and that led me to connecting with someone who I started a podcast with and is now one of my best friends. So, it was a very busy first six months but I would say from starting that Instagram account in June of 2015, I launched my first podcast with a co-host in fall. So, it was the last week, first week of November of 2015, I launched my first podcast. My first paid program and found out I was, surprise, pregnant with baby number two. I had a toddler and then found out another one is coming, which we did really want, but I wasn’t expecting him to come then. It was a busy time, so I guess at this phase, I was trying to build a branded business, as I say. So it was called Chasing Dreams and Littles, and the podcast was called All Up in Your Lady Business.
So, it was a different brand but a lot of fun, at this phase I was really just like sinking in self-doubt. I was so … so the Instagram account is very different than Instagram is now. There was no stories back then, right? It was a lot of graphics, a lot of quotes. I think I had maybe one or two pictures of me in a whole feed, right? So it was really not at all about me and I was really embarrassed for people in my real life to know that I was building a business. So I was joining these Facebook groups, some paid, some free to connect with other people doing similar things. Now at the time … I don’t think Facebook does this now, but at the time, like if I joined a group that was like entrepreneurs, whatever, it would put that in my timeline or my feed, like announced to my Facebook friends that I was joining that group.
So I literally was so afraid of people finding this out that I would … which is so funny looking back, right, but I would go onto my Facebook and as soon as I would join the group, I would go and … go into privacy and hide it from my timeline, because I didn’t want anyone to see what I was doing. It was basically like a step away from like the witness protection program here. That’s how it was, I don’t … we could spend a whole hour breaking down therapizing what was going on in my head at that time, but it felt scary to be putting myself out there and I didn’t let it hold me back because I was still taking action, but I was also taking all these other steps right to not do it. I had hired a coach who was a business and life coach and I remember thinking, “Oh, I’m not going to need the life part,” like I’m just hiring her for the business part.
Then, all this stuff happens and finding out I was pregnant and hormones and everything, I was so sick and I was so grateful to have that life coaching support during that period of time. I don’t know if I would’ve kept going without that and realizing how important it was for me. I remember saying to her, I’m normally such a confident person and I was, before I started a business, and what I’ve learned since, because I was so like, “What is going on?” I really didn’t even recognize myself. I was excited about building this business, but I’m like, “Why do I feel so insecure about this? Where are all these thoughts coming from? Why am I second guessing everything? Why am I comparing myself to people?” I just wasn’t used to being in that place, right? So, I was just felt so frozen by it all and consumed but I’m like, I don’t get it. What I started to realize since is that, that we’ll say, imposter syndrome, it’s everything wrapped up in it, right?
That imposter syndrome that comes up, doesn’t come up when we’re feeling comfortable, doesn’t come up in times when we’re keeping things, holding the egg, right? When we’re keeping things in the status quo. It comes when we’re pushing our limits. It comes when we’re getting outside of that comfort zone, I say into the growth zone, right? So, I call it … now, I call it the shrinking zone and the growth zone because there’s really no standing still. There’s no … that doesn’t exist. You’re either growing or you’re shrinking. So, that’s helped really reframe it for me because at all stages of business, mindset comes up, imposter syndrome comes up and recognizing that that’s part of the growth process and not a sign that you’re doing something wrong or you’re not cut out for this or you’re not good enough for it, but actually, “Oh, okay, like I’m pushing my limits here. That’s where it’s coming from.”
So then I was pushing a lot of limits by starting the business. So okay, to wrap this up a little bit more, so it started as this branded business, I start joining these Facebook groups, and with that membership that I launched in 2015, this is an interesting thing, because I could spin these numbers and make them sound good, right? I could be like, “Oh, I had a challenge with 300 people in it.” We converted almost 10% into the membership, like these are real numbers, right? At the end of the day, we had 29 people join and I say, I, it was very much an I at that point in time, I had 29 people join the membership, paying $29 a month. I had a solid three figure a month business. Okay? Everyone is talking about five figure months. These were three figure months. There was no comma in the monthly revenue at this point in time.
While it was something and it was recurring revenue, right, it wasn’t going to be what was going to help me leave the job that I was in, right? It wasn’t going to be enough to do that and especially being pregnant, I felt like I had this deadline of like, “I got to enough by the time this baby comes because otherwise, I can’t do it,” right? So I really felt that pressure and the funny thing that started happening was, I was in these groups, some free, some paid and people … just being myself, right? So here I was like, not really being myself out in public because I was just being the brand but then, in these private communities I was asking for help, sharing what’s going on and I started getting tagged for Instagram. I started getting … people DMing me, asking for advice. Could they hire me to do their Instagram them?
Do I do consultations and what I realized in retrospect is I built a personal brand by accident and the personal brand where people actually knew me as a human who was building a business and saw the success that I was having on Instagram, caveat, not at all an Instagram expert now. Back then, they saw this and I’d never set out to be an Instagram expert, but I was like, “Okay, well I am trying to hit these goals,” and people are just coming to me or referring to me. Maybe I should have some offers for Instagram. So, I started putting things together and selling consulting and a group coaching program and that led to a course all within like six months, by the way. This was like, bam, bam, bam. That was really eyeopening for me because here I was trying to build this branded business, Chasing Dreams and Littles, and it just felt so slow.
It wasn’t until April that I hit my first four figure month in that business. There’s finally a comma. However, this other side, this personal brand side of things was growing so fast and so easy. That really left an impression on me and it wasn’t until about a year later and a lot of other things happening that I made the decision to de-brand from Chasing Dreams and Littles and listen, there’s nothing wrong with having a branded business. I have a branded business now with Go-to Gal. The problem with my branded business was twofold. One was the type of things I was selling were not in alignment with the people who I was attracting with that name, with that brand or the things that I wanted to sell, I guess I should say, the coaching packages I wanted to offer, I was attracting the wrong person, the wrong mindset of person I should say with that brand.
The other piece of it is I was hiding in it. I was in front and center, so I could have been more front and center and I did try a little bit once I got a little bit more comfortable on the other side of things, but what I found is people when they connected with me and saw what I could help them with, that that’s when things went a lot easier. When I started carrying that same philosophy into the clients I was working with in this program, they started having more success too. So, it was really interesting how that all came to be and even funnier, somewhere in that decade before, I actually did work in personal branding, so this should have been really obvious to me, but it wasn’t. I think a lot of us dismiss our previous experience with like, “Oh, we’re starting something new, that doesn’t count or it’s different,” right?
Whereas, if we take all of our knowledge and experience from different parts of our careers in our life, that’s what makes us so unique and the depth of our expertise too, right? Not just what we’ve learned last month, but the culmination of things that we’ve learned throughout our careers. So I started really leaning more into that piece of things. Okay. This is like my whole life story, but where do we go … so I’m like, “Okay, where do we go from here?”
Jessmyn Solana:
No, this is great.
Jaclyn Mellone:
I have one more thing to tie into all of this is, so I was having all of my own insecurities and self-doubt and imposter syndrome early on. At some point in time, I started doing one-on-one consulting with people … as an upsell to people who were in the membership. In our group calls, it was a lot of marketing questions. That was my expertise. That’s more of what I built the membership around was community and marketing. When I started getting on calls one on one, everyone was opening up to me about their mindset struggles, and because I had been struggling with mindsets so much myself, I was knee deep in all of the books and all of the resources, right? So I started bringing them in on those conversations and I joke that when I started doing that, when I started bringing mindset into the conversation with the strategy, that’s when they actually started doing what I told them to do.
It’s true, we can’t look at strategy and isolation and for myself, but also for the people who I’ve helped over these last six years, I’ve realized that it’s not just about the strategy, you can have the best strategy in the world, but if your mindset, if your belief systems don’t match that strategy, that you’re looking to execute, one, you’re probably not going to do it or you’re even not even going to see the opportunity to do it because you don’t believe it’s possible and if you are fortunate enough to get past those blocks of, “Okay, I’m going to do it. I see the opportunity. I’m going to do it anyway,” your energy is going to feel out of alignment and it’s not going to get the result that you really wanted to get. So pairing the mindset and the marketing has really been instrumental both to my success and everyone who I’ve helped along the way.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that. That was beautiful. I think also what’s awesome about your story is it also happened to you, where you started a business, you were like, “Okay, this is what I’m doing,” but until you kind of made that same match, made that pairing, as you said it, that’s when it finally clicked. I think, it’s so interest, I mean even for us on our end when we talk to customers, they’re always like, “Why aren’t people paying attention to me basically?” It’s like, “Well, you’re making like your whole branding, your marketing, your quiz all around what you see other people doing,” where’s the element of you in it? I think like people who are customers, or even just like maybe shopping around, like looking around, they … part of it is of course, like they want those services, they need that help but they’re also looking for that authenticity as well.
I think that plays a huge part in your business kind of mattering, I guess or it makes a huge part and like what people see from you.
Jaclyn Mellone:
It’s so true and it’s so easy to say, “Oh, be authentic,” like what does that look like? What does that … right? What is that? Getting comfortable sharing, but I don’t think you need to share too much. I’m not one of those people that’s like, you need to pour your heart out and tell every struggle that you’ve had and it almost gets to the point sometimes where I feel like it’s like vulnerability porn. It’s like how … What is the most shock value, crazy story that someone could share or picture that they could share on Instagram. Oftentimes what I found, it’s the little things, it’s the nuances that … those little cracks in the perfect coding that … and not that there needs to be a perfect coding, but what I found is sometimes it’s the smallest things that people can relate to over or that make things feel more genuine versus the perfectly curated, vulnerable post. I don’t know if that’s what you were even getting at but that’s what made me think of is like the perfectly curated vulnerable versus just that like on a whim sharing sometimes, right?
Jessmyn Solana:
Right.
Jaclyn Mellone:
That it doesn’t have to be overly emotional or dramatic but maybe it’s more relatable, right, or it’s just a simple thing that you don’t even realize is going to have such a big impact, but people see it because they get it, right? It’s like those little things that are sometimes unexpected.
Jessmyn Solana:
Yeah. I think even … I mean, I’m nothing big on Instagram myself, but I feel like sometimes I get the most engagement from … I mean, most of my followers are my friends and family, but people engage with me more when it’s just one of those days that I was like, I wanted to take a picture and I didn’t feel like putting makeup on and they’re like, “Oh my God, you look so great, this is awesome. I feel that way all the time too,” and it’s kind of like what you’re talking about. It’s just like one of those days where you just don’t have to always be on, if that makes sense. You just … of course, like it’s your business, you also want to be business like, I guess you could say. There’s just times and I think people relate to that, especially if you are an online coach.
They also … other people who are also starting their businesses, they kind of want to see that sort of realness in the people that they look to.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Totally. So, for me, for my approach, it’s about not taking myself and not taking ourselves too seriously, right? So sometimes that mean I’ll post a picture and this is a real story that is just the perfect illustration of this. I had my husband take a picture of me. I was like wearing a pretty dress and our neighbor next door had like a beautiful bush, like let’s go to outside of the yard with like the pretty bush or whatever, right? So we go out and of course, my son like runs out and he’s still got like the pull up on or whatever, he’s in his pajamas and the dog runs out. So of course, there’s a bunch of pictures and I’m looking at them and literally there’s like my son in his PJs and the dog is pooping in the picture, like this is it.
This is real life right here. We’re trying to take the picture and this is all going on. I could have cropped it very easily, but I’m like, this is way too fun to just not show the whole picture of what’s going on. Recently, I was reading something. I actually think it might have been Rebecca Minkoff’s book and Fearless, and she was talking about like, reality is like just outside the … what’s the word, like at the-
Jessmyn Solana:
The Instagram Square. Yeah.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Yeah, just outside the square but she was using a photography term. That’s not coming to me now, but it reminded me of that because I’m like, I could have so easily cropped that picture, but it’s sometimes, what’s just outside of that frame, that’s the most interesting, that’s the most real.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that. I love that. So I know we talked about it a little bit before the call and we don’t always talk about quizzes on our podcast for those who are listening, but Jaclyn’s quiz is actually really special, do you want to go ahead and talk about it?
Jaclyn Mellone:
Sure, and I’m like blushing as you’re like, “Jaclyn’s quiz is special.” It is?
Jessmyn Solana:
It is. It is. It is. It is. It is.
Jaclyn Mellone:
So this is my second quiz with Interactive. Had one a few years ago and actually, the one I had a few years ago, was like, “Are you on your way to being booked out or burned out?” What I loved most about the quiz was the results. So, I had fun with the results that when they got the result, it was like, “You’re Princess Jasmine,” and I was like, “Oh whoops, wrong quiz,” and then, the rest of the email, I had Aladdin references. Then, I did the same thing with the other result. It was like, “You’re Princess Anna, like whoops, wrong results,” and it was all frozen references and song lyrics and just a way to lighten it up and make it more fun. We got great feedback on it. So even though that quiz didn’t fit in with what I was doing now, I wanted to bring that and I wanted to bring that energy of the fun result to the quiz.
Now, I talk a lot about mindset and what I had realized is that self sabotage, what people call self sabotage was just getting in the way of everyone being where they want to be, right? So how do you combat that? The topic of self-sabotage is not really all that exciting. It can feel a little heavy, a little daunting. Now, many people are like, “Let me go take that self-sabotage quiz.” That can feel a little bit … like maybe I don’t want to go there, right?
Jessmyn Solana:
Right.
Jaclyn Mellone:
When there’s a way to make it fun, it makes it more accessible, it makes it easier to have the conversation with other people about it, where talking about your own self-sabotage, may feel really vulnerable, if you’re able to talk about it in a fun way, it opens up that conversation. It opens up maybe even just you being able to have that conversation with yourself. So my goal for this quiz was to tackle kind of a big, heavy topic of self sabotage, but to one, acknowledge that there’s different types of self sabotage. So I’ve broke it down into three different types, so we can talk about that. With that, it’s taking the style of self-sabotage and personifying that inner critic that shows up. So they’re the one sabotaging you, it’s not you. So my whole philosophy here is that it’s not really self sabotage. It’s this inner voice, this inner villain voice is how I personify the inner critic, that is the one sabotaging you.
So understanding what their sabotage style is, allows us to put together that custom conquer plan for you, and it is different for the three different types. We have an overall framework for the conquer plan, but depending on your type of sabotage style, it’s going to be a little bit different. So I didn’t want a one size fits all solution, which is why a quiz was perfect for this because I’m like, everyone is different with this and people don’t talk about that. They just say your inner critic. They don’t kind of inner critic do you have, right? So breaking that down was something that I knew people weren’t talking about, but that would be a really powerful tool to help them actually break free of that inner villain voice, because that’s what it is, right?
Jessmyn Solana:
Right.
Jaclyn Mellone:
So with personifying the inner critic as an inner villain, our three villains are … and this was fun to come up with, but the three villains are Miranda Priestley from The Devil Wears Prada. Ursula, of course, from Little Mermaid and Regin George, of course, the classic mean girl. So those are the three results they get and while it’s fun and funny and gives us a lot of great gifts and movie quotes that we can throw in to really lighten up this heavy topic, but also to kind of bring it to life for people too. That’s a big part of it is, okay, how do we take this thing that, okay, when that voice comes in your head, are you letting it control you or are you able to call it out and start picturing Meryl Streep and really have that pattern interrupt of humor to help break it up.
That’s really part of our conquer plan is injecting humor into it. So that’s infused in the whole thing, right from the start of the quiz of we’re going to have fun with this heavy topic.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that because I think, like you said, it’s not easy to talk about things like that. So I guess, so far, what has been your experience like kind of dealing with self sabotage and it kind of matches what we were earlier … talking about earlier kind of, aligning with the messaging that you are bringing out in your business, is this something that you kind of experience yourself that you were like, “Okay, this is something that I want to bring to the table because I think I can help people with it.”
Jaclyn Mellone:
Absolutely, and I’ve realized this for a while that people have different styles of self sabotage, so that inner voice is different. So, for me, my … and I don’t say I’m this villain voice, because I’m not, right? It’s villain voice because it’s this thing that’s separate from me and I think that’s important for us knowing that we can conquer it, that we’re not at war with ourselves. It’s this … this is external thing, right? So for me, my villain voice is Ursula, and with Ursula, her sabotage style is it’s interesting with all of the sabotage styles, and this is something that I started developing based on real people. I’ve worked with a lot of people over the years and I’ve noticed the different things, right? So I started breaking it down. I’m like, “Okay, there’s people like me that …” and I’ll describe this real quick, because I think this may help someone else who is putting together a quiz, right?
So I started with my own kind of like intellectual property, but just like floating in my head. So, I’m like, okay, there’s people like me that when we get overwhelmed and we’re sabotaging, we tend to overthink things. We avoid, that’s like the classic, “Ah, this is overwhelming.” I’m like, “I’m not going to do it. I’m not going to look at my email for a month,” which is why I have someone in my email, but I’m an avoider, I’m a procrastinator and I can definitely get in that like overthinking cycle too. Then, I would notice with my clients that some of them were just like me, but some of them were … they would get stressed out and then they would just work like crazy hours. They would go from one thing to the next or they would quit a launch in the middle and I’m like, “Okay, well that’s definitely very different than me.”
Your output is a lot more, but I also could see that they were sabotaging their success by not giving things proper time or different like … by just doing everything themselves and not letting their team shine or it was different qualities with that type too. So I didn’t have a total handle on, but I’m like, it’s something like that and then, the other type was just consumed with feelings and emotion, right and it was like the comparison, the self-doubt shame but just like all the feels was over here. So, I had on my own … from my own research and knowledge, just kind of … not even research, at this point, it was just for my own head like, “Okay, these are kind of the three types I’m thinking,” and this led to … I was hearing someone talk about how she uses different DiSC profiles.
So, I’m like, “Oh, that’s so smart.” I’m like, “But I have three types, not four. I don’t know anything about DiSCs, so that’s not going to work for me.” Knowing the people who I had kind of broken this down with … and some of them I went and asked, I’m like, “What’s your Myers Briggs? What’s your Enneagram?” I started trying to find a theme. I’m like, “Did I stumble into a theme?” I’m looking and I’m like, “Oh, there’s nine Enneagram types and I have three different categories and there’s 16 Myers Briggs and I have three.” What I ended up realizing though is that there’s a thing called the Enneagram triads and I had not really known about this. When I got further into it, it really aligned with what I had already set up. So then I went all in on learning more about the Enneagram triads and rounding it out more.
Sometimes people get a different result than their Enneagram and later have found out that their Enneagram is actually mistyped. So, I’m like, “Okay, I don’t …” like, it’s not an Enneagram quiz, but what I’ve learned from this is that one, it really helps to anchor it to some type of profiles that already exist. I’m glad that I started with my own knowledge first because it didn’t sway what I was doing, but it did help me to firm things up. So, with that, the three different styles, like with my own style, my greatest strength, people that are in my profile type, one of our biggest superpowers is our brain, is our thoughts, is our ideas, our strategies, right? So our inner villain uses that superpower against us, that ourself, that’s what the self sabotage is, right?
So Ursula’s sabotage style is distorting our thoughts and that’s how it shows up is that the overthinking and the avoiding of being overwhelmed by the thoughts is the reaction to Ursula distorting the thoughts. So with all the other types, it’s something similar where with the Regina inner villain voice, the people that have that type, their super power is their emotional intelligence. They’re really connected to their own empathy, other people’s emotions. They understand their own feelings, other people’s feelings and all of that. With Regina, what does she do? She distorts, she manipulates their emotions, right, with the superpower and then, same thing with Miranda. With the Miranda type, that is … their greatest strength is their gut, their instinct and Miranda sabotage style is distorting that instinct.
So, that’s like the … the big framework is, okay, now we all do a little bit of all of these, we’re very creative with our sabotaging. We have that dominant sabotage style. So understanding what it is, allows us to create that custom conquer plan, which is part of the free quiz, but to give you the actual steps of, “Okay, so how do you conquer this inner villain voice,” and start looking at it differently but really breaking that pattern of the quote unquote self sabotage, because that’s what it is. It’s a pattern that keeps coming up, so understanding why it’s happening, how it’s happening, what that sabotage style is, allows us to actually break the pattern.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that. That’s awesome, and it was so clear how you explained it. I was like, “Dang, I need to take this quiz. I want to know which one.” My question is like, how helpful is this … I mean, for your clients or for you specifically in understanding this to … whether you are an entrepreneur or if they’re using it in other parts of their lives, but I guess for the sake of the podcast for listeners, their business owners, how can this help you in, I guess, either A, like running your business, coping with things that happen in your business and so on?
Jaclyn Mellone:
So understanding this, I think is key to breaking that pattern, to actually being able to get to that point of where you’re trying to go. I think a lot of us, feel like we should be further along than we are or feel that maybe they get two steps forward and then it’s like five steps back, right? That’s like, what’s that all about? That’s usually where this self sabotage comes in. So, there’s a lot that goes into mindset, but this is such a powerful first step because it not only gives us that self-awareness of how we’re self-sabotaging, right, of how our inner villain voice is sabotaging us, but it does it in a fun way that even just the humor of it can help break the pattern. When we know that, it’s so much easier to be on the lookout for it, to spot it and to do those things, than to take that conquer plan and start to shift it. Now, is that going to solve all of the mindset problems that someone has? No.
Is that going to give you the strategy for how to grow your whole business? No. Right? That’s the first step and that’s a really important piece, and this is something I was intuitively doing with my private clients, right, like we would figure out like, “Oh, every launch you try to do … you try to quit your whole business or whatever.” We would start seeing these patterns, right, but this framework has even helped me work with clients to kind of fast track, “Okay. Now, we know what to look for.” Some of my clients … one of my clients I’ve worked with actually, she joined the first round of that membership back in 2015. We’ve worked together in different capacities now for almost six years. So privately for the past couple years, with group programs, we’ve pretty much been working together since.
So, with her, right, I know a lot. So there’s a lot of history there. We can easily connect dots and all of that but with newer clients, having something like this allows me to get to know them better, to be able to help them better a lot faster. With themselves, it allows them to start making some of those tweaks on their own quicker too. I’m going to say for a lot of people, which I wasn’t expecting, but for a lot of people that have tiptoed around mindset, it’s opened it up and made it feel more approachable and not as daunting, and being able to start a conversation about it and that maybe has been one of the biggest things holding them back in their business, but they haven’t realized it, especially the Miranda types because it doesn’t feel like mindset … because they just keep working really hard or they’re onto the next thing. It doesn’t feel like mindset and the way the other two types show it, where the overthinking and all the feels, you’re like, “Okay, this seems like a mindset.”
Where with the inner villain voice of Miranda, it doesn’t always show up like that. So being able to spot it, being able to open up this whole new door to mindset, yeah, has been really powerful.
Jessmyn Solana:
Yeah. That’s awesome because I think … My gosh, it’s just so crazy to think of how, because it is so vulnerable and that you are kind of tapping into a place you probably don’t like tapping into, like looking at it in this perspective is like, “Okay, we know this is scary. We know it’s not something you want to necessarily look at or think about, but it could be holding you back. It could be kind of hindering the growth,” especially in your business because this like … even if your business isn’t your whole life, it’s a big part of your life and if you want that growth, if you want to scale, you need to kind of look at this and figure out, “Okay, what’s the best way I can move forward? How can I work around this or work through this?” And going from there really, I think even for me, I just like hate when people … I hate when people are like, “Why do you think this didn’t work out for you?”
I’m like, “I really don’t want to talk about it,” but over time I have gotten better at like, “You know what, I know exactly what happened here,” but I remember just like before I even felt comfortable talking about it myself, just like in … as an employee at a corporate job or at a nine to five job, it’s like, “Hey, what happened here?” And I’ll just like, “I don’t know. It won’t happen again. I’m out of here, let’s talk later. Bye.”
Jaclyn Mellone:
Yeah. Well, and it’s interesting with the different types too that … especially with the Enneagram piece, helped me understand better and connect dots better handles that piece differently, right? So someone with that Miranda in her voice is likely to not feel … I’m guessing that you don’t have Miranda, because they’re more likely to project that onto someone else. So, it’s either like anger, it’s someone else or it’s like this boiling resentment, like I’m going to stay up all night and do this, but I’m really resentful of the other person for not pulling their weight so I have to, kind of thing. It’s a lot of anger with the emotion. With Ursula, is the inner villain voice, which what is what I have, it’s fear, is probably the dominant emotion.
So that’s where it’s kind of this, I picture like lurking in the cave, like, “Ah, I don’t want to touch it because I’m afraid to even see what it is.” We tend to also think it’s … whatever our strategy is, we did something wrong, like, “Oh my strategy, wasn’t good enough. My writing wasn’t good enough. I did the wrong thing. I didn’t do enough.” We kind of really take it on ourselves and then, with the Regina villain voice, it’s kind of taking that to the next level. It’s like, “I’m not good enough. I’m a screw up. I’m kind of owning whatever that mistake is as themselves,” and kind of … and that is heavy to hold, right? When we start to realize how that’s showing up, then we can start to break that or realize that that’s just the part of the … that’s like the sabotage style, that this inner villain is having, right?
It doesn’t have to be the way we respond and we can start breaking that pattern and creating a new one and that’s a really powerful tool to be able to practically move forward with mindset, right? Sometimes mindset can feel a little out there, but it’s also really practical in this application of, “Okay, no, it’s really …” with that Regina type, right, they might be blaming themselves for not being good enough for not living up to whatever it is or not thinking that they’re ready for that next thing, but when they realized that that’s just Regina being that inner mean girl, right? And they’re able to really switch that around and start to … and I say like, embrace the movie quotes, have fun with it. We put that in part of our framework of inducing the humor with it, I guess.
Once you know that that’s part of it, that that’s part of growth, I look at mindset as like personal hygiene. This is not … like okay, I’m not going to pretend like I shower every day, but maybe every other day, you got to shower. One shower isn’t going to be enough for the week, a month, the year, right? This isn’t a one time thing and it’s same with mindset. It’s really something that I encourage people to proactively work on themselves, right? And have these different state routines to get into the right mind state or different wellness practices to help with their mindfulness. So they’re proactive before they’re even getting in those situations, right? Also, so we have the proactive plan, the reactive plan. They’re both are there.
It’s so easy to think, “Oh, people that are thinking like that are worried about … They’re early on in their business,” or they’re whatever. That’s not how it is. Like I said in the beginning, when mindset comes up, it shows me that you’re in that grow zone. You’re not in that shrinking zone anymore. So, how do we get comfortable being uncomfortable? How do we put different routines into our schedule to really help us show up as our best self and not let these inner villains sabotage us?
Jessmyn Solana:
That’s beautiful. I love it. I love it. I feel like we could talk about this for hours, but we are coming up on time. For those who don’t know before we talked about this, we were like, “This is going to go kind of long, right?”
Jaclyn Mellone:
I’m like, I’m a talker. Cut me off if you need to.
Jessmyn Solana:
This is so awesome and I feel like, this is a good place to also stop because it’s super inspirational and who knows, maybe we could talk about it again, but before we do close out Jaclyn, I have a couple of last minute questions just to close out if you’re up for it,
Jaclyn Mellone:
I’m up for it. Let’s do it.
Jessmyn Solana:
Yeah. Okay, so second to last question, what are three things most people wouldn’t know about you?
Jaclyn Mellone:
Okay. This is so hard, because I’m like, “Well, what do people know? What do they know? What do they don’t know?” So one, one fun thing that people … most people probably don’t know about me yet is that I used to be amazing at hula hooping and I’m still pretty good at it. I just ordered a custom hula hoop this summer.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that.
Jaclyn Mellone:
The longest I’ve ever hula hooped for was three hours, straight. Now I’m like, I can barely do like five minutes. We’re working on those abs again.
Jessmyn Solana:
That’s incredible.
Jaclyn Mellone:
It’s been a lot of fun to bring that back into … because it’s something I used to love doing so much when I was in high school and I find a lot of joy in having it now. So yeah, I got a custom hula hoop, which is super fun. The other thing which some people probably know, but maybe not everybody is that I have ADHD. So that’s something that I recently discovered the past couple of years and has been quite a journey, but learning this about myself and also connecting so many of the dots from when I was growing up and struggles that I had then, struggles that I’d had now, it’s been a crazy journey, but it’s really helped to one, just embrace some of it. It’s not about just fixing, right? It’s also about working with my brain instead of against it.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that.
Jaclyn Mellone:
That has also been just a really great journey to understand myself better and understand how to make my brain work better, how to make my schedule work for me, not in the way that maybe works for other people, right but to really challenge myself to get creative with that and figure out those … yeah, what’s going to work the best. Okay, and the third thing, what’s it going to be? I don’t know, I’m obsessed with Hamilton, the play. The song … really, me saying I’m obsessed with Hamilton is really just a euphemism for me saying I’m obsessed with Lin-Manuel Miranda. I love Hamilton but I also love In The Heights and I love everything that Lin does. So I guess we’ll share that. I really admire … I mean, his brain is just so fascinating to me and how he thinks.
For me, it’s not just about watching the play or learning the lyrics to the songs, but I like the book and how he came up with different notes because he wanted to sound like a door closing. So, he used that chime on his computer and then matched that with the note on the piano. I love stuff like that and how he is just really creative in the whole creative process, but also his collaborative process too, I really admire. So yeah, I geek out on all things, Lin-Manuel Miranda and yeah, those are three things. How does that?
Jessmyn Solana:
No, I love that. I love how that turned into three, but also kind of into four, like three and a half.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Three and a half. Three and a half. Okay. Yes, it’s true. Bonus one.
Jessmyn Solana:
So last question for you, if you could give yourself a single piece of advice at the start of it all, what would it be?
Jaclyn Mellone:
So when I … if I say the start of it all, if I would give myself that advice back in 2005 or right around that time when I was graduating, it would really be to actually see it through and to talk to other people to learn because that’s what I feel like podcasting did for me and it took so long. So, to take action, like the imperfect action, I’ve pivoted 1200 times in my business and I think I was so afraid to do that for so long or just unsure what the steps were and were just paralyzed in action, trying to come up with the perfect plan or think that someday things would be the perfect situation. It’s really just about those small steps that create clarity that lead to the next step. So start somewhere, do the small step, not the big step, because the big step is probably going to make your brain explode. So the mindset is really hard for that big step, so do the small steps and just keep tweaking.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love that. I love that. I think it’s so important, especially if … for those who are listening, if you are in the early stages of your business or you’re in a slump maybe right now, just kind of see it through and keep going.
Jaclyn Mellone:
Yeah. I even tell myself that now too, because sometimes once we’ve had success, it feels even more intimidating, like we can’t do bigger things or be like-
Jessmyn Solana:
Right, how do I top this?
Jaclyn Mellone:
It’s already working, right, or what if I do … like I’ve already had this, so what if I do this other thing? It totally flops, right? So constantly reminding myself that it’s okay if things flop, that that’s all part of the process and experimenting because we never want to get stuck in that, like just trying to keep things as they are, because that’s when we get into the shrinking mode, right?
Jessmyn Solana:
Right.
Jaclyn Mellone:
I find that the … sometimes those smaller steps, sometimes they lead us to a bigger step, but everyone is like, “Just do it,” and that person just froze, like, “But this is too much. I can’t do it.” So when I break it down to like … sometimes it’s literally like, what’s the smallest possible thing I could do? When it’s that small and that simple, I can actually do it and then, what’s the next smallest thing I can possibly do?
Jessmyn Solana:
I love it. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much Jaclyn for sharing your story, talking about self-sabotage with us today. Where can people find you online if they’re looking?
Jaclyn Mellone:
Yes. Well first, you can go take that quiz for free, which movie villain … I don’t even know if I said the name earlier, of which movie villain is sabotaging your success? That is the quiz, and you can find out which villain at jaclynmellone.com/quiz. Then, definitely go over to the Go-to gal Podcast, wherever you’re listening now and subscribe. We do new episodes every single week and you can also connect with me on Instagram, jaclyn_mellone and send me a DM, say hi. I’d love to know … if you have a quiz, I’d love to know what your quiz is or I’d love to know if you take my quiz, I’d love to know which villain is living rent free in your head.
Jessmyn Solana:
I love it and guys, we will put that in the show notes. So don’t fret, it will be there for you to just click on and you will find all of it. Thank you again for listening. We will see you next time. Bye.